Midnight Special ?

[Jarion]

Ok gentlemen, (and Ladies if applies),
I'm jumping in here as a brand new member of xs11... just received membership to this wonderful site last night.

Please excuse my ignorance on this but need to run a question through.

I recently picked up a bike (a week ago) that had to be brought back on a trailer. Seller claimed it to be a 1980 midnight special. I really didn't care what it was as long as the rear brake caliper released when I pushed the brake pedal (recently learned all about the spooge hole... so, I'll be looking into that before swapping parts).

Anyhow, I'm now curious as to whether this bike really is an abused midnight special. I searched throught the "misc" section of the forum's and found a nice reference to serial numbers for the 1100's however, nothing in there specifically designates a serial number that's specific to midnight special's.

If anyone has input on this we'd sure appreciate it. The serial number on the bike (the frame and engine match) is as follows: 4H3-001660. The info on the forum shows the following:

1980 XS1100LG 4H3-000101 New Yamaha Black

So, I'm just curious if this is how the midnight specials were tagged from the factory or if the bike we have is something that's just been modified to resemble a midnight special.

There are little things about this bike that are suspicious... exhaust pipes are chrome and extend past the rear axle on the bike, certain areas of the bike look like they've been spray painted black (for instance areas which have the gold chromed accents have been spray painted black, the fenders look like they've been painted black with a brush). My gut tells me it really is a midnight special that someone tried to "pretty up" with a can of spray paint and did an absolutley horrible job. There are markings on the bike (between the speedometer and tech) which indicate midnight special.


Thoughts?
Thanks
JT

[XSive Okie]

I don't have a MNS, but as far as I know-should have gold midnight special emblems on side covers; exhaust and enigne (except for cooling fin tips) should be black; wheels and brake rotors should have gold accents; and seat bracket (if stock) should be gold. I don't know for sure where to find any model # designations, but someone on here will.

[crazy steve]

Good news, it is a Midnight; the 'L' in the model designation is the identifier for those. Some pics would be good to see what has been changed out (sounds like you may have either a standard exhaust or the stock one has been altered), but for an idea of what it's supposed to look like....
http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/ads-br...t-special.html
This is a '81, so has the 'swirly' wheels which yours wouldn't have, and the only other major difference would be the braking system. But the color scheme was pretty much identical. If a lot of the MNS parts are missing/damaged, it would probably be a bit tough to restore it to stock.

[Jarion]

Steve / Okie,
Appreciate the input.

The side covers are gone as well as the air box.... and the normal places where you'd expect to see the gold accents seem to still be there (most of them can be seen through peeling black spray paint). Additionally, Someone also painted the top of the carbs black and then someone else took what looks like sand paper or a rough steel wool and took the paint off... so some of the gold accent there is now a mixture of gold accent and regular chrome. Other than what's mentioned above the bike is still in tack and I could probably make it road worthy with $500 or so. There are some places where wires have been cut so, I'd have to go through and fix some of the wiring but feel pretty confident no more than $500 or so would put it on the road.... assuming the inigition module and other parts are in good working order (i.e. starter, drive trane, etc.). Engine is not locked up and the inside of the tank is clean. Bike has been layed down so there's scrapes on the right side engine cover right over the top of where it has "Yamaha" engraved... (in fact it looks like this bike has landed on its side and slid down the road a few times).... but as I mentioned earlier... the rear brake caliper works! (front brakes don't work but probably just a Tender Loving Care issue.)

I'll post some pictures a little later.
Once I verify that the "splooge holes" have been my problem all along (have another XS1100 Special with 7k miles and have been fighting this caliper drag issue for 11 years) ... the midnight special will be going up for sale.... or maybe just part it out.
Thanks again guys... really appreciate your input.
Kind Regards,
JT

[crazy steve]

Once I verify that the "splooge holes" have been my problem all along (have another XS1100 Special with 7k miles and have been fighting this caliper drag issue for 11 years) ...

Too bad the midnight is as abused as it is, but sadly not an uncommon thing...

If you haven't disassembled your calipers and cleaned them out, you should. Once the brake system gets crudded up enough that the master cylinder needs cleaning, the whole system needs to cleaned/flushed out. You'll get corrosion behind the caliper piston seals, and that will cause the pistons to drag. You need to get every possible bit of that out of the seal groove. The 'splooge hole' issue is usually the brakes not releasing at all, but in either case a complete cleaning is the best choice...

[Jarion]

Thanks Steve,
3 times over the past 11 years I've been into the master cylinder (rebuild) and once into the calipers (a year ago). Each time the brakes start working "somewhat"... and have worked enough to ride the bike but have never worked like they should. I only cruise around town and have always been worried about heating the rotor on the rear. I never knew about the "splooge" holes until the other night when I was snooping around the internet... found this site and found one of your postings.
The purchase of the 1100 midnight special was a hail mary attempt to resolve the problem with a known good working rear brake system.... but since my new found knowledge of the "splooge holes" I shoud be able to get this issue resolved with the factory equipment without switching out parts.

The brake system on this bike has been purged, and purged and purged... and bled and bled and on and on.

I've had many, many discussions over many beers with quite a few knowledgable friends (we're all old motor heads who know our way around cars) and we all have agreed that the master cylinder is somehow the culprit or there is some sort of undetectable obstruction in the brake line that acts like a flapper valve.

Needless to say, your post the other night was enlightening to me and I can tell you that I never once looked for or - remember seeing - a pin hole freakin "splooge hole" that needed attention during any of the dismantling I've done on the master cylinder.

I have absolutely no doubt that this is where my problem is and has been for the past 11 years and.... bow to your knowledge of this matter and owe you a beer... if we ever meet.

When I rip into this brake system (again) and find the splooge hole and get it cleaned out (on both the front and rear master cylinders) I'm sure it'll resolve the nightmare... and I'll shoot you a note.

It bugs me to no end when I walk out to move the bike and have to call someone in to help me push it in the garage .... because the calipers are engaged.... will be nice to get this resolved once and for all....
Thanks again!
Kind Regards,
JT

[tom clisham]

Just to re-emphasize something that Steve mentioned:

If the brakes free up when you tap the MC with a RUBBER mallet,be sure you remove the rubber piston gasket, clean out the groove, & put in a new gasket.

This can be as troublesome as the spooge hole.

[crazy steve]

The brake system on this bike has been purged, and purged and purged... and bled and bled and on and on.

If you have corrosion in the calipers, purging and bleeding will help some but isn't really 'the fix'.

Easy way to check to see which is the major part of the problem? If the brake is dragging, loosen one of the banjo bolts (either end) to the offending caliper. If the problem is wholely the master cylinder, the brake will then fully release and you should have only the slightest amount of drag at the pads. No change, or if it still drags enough where it takes some effort to turn the wheel, then you need to go into the caliper(s).

Out of all the XS calipers I've ever worked on, I only found one that didn't need that seal groove cleaned... even on bikes that had 'functioning' brakes. The 'official' recommendation from Yamaha was to replace the caliper seals every two years.

Nobody did that...

[Jarion]

Yep
Seal groves were a little messy... a year ago.... but that's not were the major problem is or has been.

The brakes completely free up "immediately" if I crack the bleeder valve at the caliper.... reliving the brake fluid pressure from the caliper is all that's needed to free everything up.... so, the splooge hole is the first place I'm diving into this time.

Thanks

[DGXSER]

Hey Jarion. If that hoel is that dirty, the rest of it is probably not clean. If you were not already planning to, I would suggest pulling the MC out and completely disassembling, and cleaning. Besides the splooge hole int he rear MC is a PITA to get to on the bike.

[crazy steve]

I should mention that the post you saw about the splooge hole was referring to a front master cylinder. The rear also has this hole, but it may not be as easy to find. If you can't find it in the recess under the reservoir, then it's behind the bolt head below. Pull that bolt (actually just a plug), then shine a good bright light in there. This one can be really nasty to clean (I must have spent a couple hours on mine) because it's down that hole. There's two versions of this M/C, and that's main difference. They're functionally identical...

[Jarion]

Thanks guys.

Steve, The post I read the other night had examples of both master cylinders. If I have trouble locating the hole I'll shoot some pictures of it and get some more input specific to what I see and find a way to get them to you and everyone else. It did look like the rear would be a challenge to get to.

DGXER - believe me... the brake system on this bike is clean.... I just had no idea that there was a friggin pin hole that needed to be cleaned out.

This bike sat for about 17 / 18 years before I got my hands on it in 2000. Today it still almost looks like it rolled off the showroom floor. (there's a small scratch on top of the gas tank that was rubbed in from my daughters trumpet case one day when I picked her up from school and straddled the case between my legs for a few miles on the way home).

I've been very intimate with the brakes over the past 11 years.... and now I have something new on the brakes to get intimate with.

Will keep you guys up to date on the progress of this.... tonight I decided to go fishing (something I haven't done in quite a while) .... it would have been more productive to work on splooge holes.... because I didn't even get a bite all night .... 6 hours and no fish.... betting I could have gotten some splooge holes cleaned out during that time.

[Jarion]

Not sure if I mentioned it previous... but this bike only has 7k miles on it.
it had 1500 on it back in 2000... and I've put about 5.5k on it since.

[DGXSER]

Sounds like a very nice machine. And yeah, sounds like most of my fishing trips, there is a reason its called fishing and not catching!!