Newbie Problem: Turn Signal Wiring, and Brake Light Help

[Twanginblues]

Thanks cy!!

Was hoping to get a response soon since I'm searching away and not finding what I'm looking for. I'm gonna go remove a bulb now and see what the number on it is. I'd love to switch to LED's. Especially if they draw less. Typical with an 85 suzuki I had at one time, when the bike idles the headlight isn't quite as bright as when it's revved up. I see that with a lot of older cars too. I'm assuming that using anything that requires less juice will help when the bike is idle at 1,000k and trying to power the headlight at well.

That's good to hear about the starter. I won't worry about it unless it stops engaging altogether and I have to do the old-school pushstart.

[Twanginblues]

Looks like they are all 1156 bulbs. They say:

Stanley 1156 12v32cp. After reading some threads I'm wondering if my battery might be an issue. The previous owner kept it on a battery tender 24/7 and I do the same thing. There's no telling how old the thing is. Maybe I should give it a gander and see.

[DGXSER]

One of the often lamented designs on this bike is the limited capabilities of the alternator. It is very common that the headlight dims at idle. It is also not uncommon that the turn signals that blink just fine at speed, stop blinking at idle. This is due to low output of the alternator at idle speed, combined wiht dirty/bad connections.

Few places to check is all the grounds to the frame and the engine, make sure they are clean and solidly ocnnected. Also the ones at the voltage regulator, clean the frame and the regulator where they meet and the top side of the regulator where the wires and bolts connect. Also the connectors behind the fuse box plate, they are the alternator connections. See that they are clean, and not melted (which has happened on more than a few occasions).

[Twanginblues]

Will do. Thanks DG.

I'm amazed at how clean a lot of the bike looks and how dirty some of the inner workings are. I agree it wouldn't hurt to check ALL the wiring on this thing. Somebody perfected the surface cleaning but never managed to do any deep cleaning.

I appreciate the words!

[crazy steve]

You know, looking at how these bikes are wired I noticed a couple of strange things about the grounding.

One, the forks aren't grounded, except through the neck bearings. The front turns/running lights on the standards depend on that ground path.

Two, there's no direct ground to the battery. Sure, the negative goes to the frame, and from there to the motor. But your other ground point is at the regulator, so you're depending on that single connection for most of the rest of your grounding.

It would make more sense to run a wire (say a number 12 awg) from the frame ground where the battery cable attaches to the regulator ground connection. Now you don't have to depend on a path through the steel frame, and have less worries about how clean that spot is. I wonder how many grounding issues this would clear up...

I'm gonna do this on mine....

[natemoen]

I was just thinking of the fork ground issue yesterday too Steve. I put some compositions brushing on the forks that hold the headlight ears firm and steady but they no longer touch the forks or the trees at all anywhere. So I was thinking I am probably going to have to run a ground wire into the headlight bucket now.

[DGXSER]

Interesting, only owned the Special model. Not sure why they would be different in this aspect, but yes, there is a ground wire to all the blinkers in the headlight bucket. I would most definitely run a separate ground from the voltage regulator or something similar up into the bucket to provide a ground path.

[natemoen]

Well on the standards the turn signals bolt directly to the lower tree pinch bolts. I put a special headlight and turn signals on mine so I don't have the direct connection to metal anymore in my situation.

[cywelchjr]

Well on the standards the turn signals bolt directly to the lower tree pinch bolts. I put a special headlight and turn signals on mine so I don't have the direct connection to metal anymore in my situation.

In which case you need a ground. There SHOULD be one available already in the bucket that's not being used that you can plug into and run to the stems. The black wire(s) would be grounds, there are a couple of them used for a couple of circuits and you can borrow one. I know you have to use one of them for a fairing anyways, so you don't have to run anything special, it's already there.

[crazy steve]

That's another place they typically cut corners on bike harnesses...

You'll have multiple circuits run to a location (each with their own load), yet you'll only find one (or two if you're lucky) ground wires for the return path for all of them. And it's usually the same size as the supply wires, but is being asked to carry the added-together total. In most cases it's size is barely adequate, so if you have any issues at any connection, you start having problems. That's why having good, clean ground connections is so important. In electrical parlance, that's known as 'overloading the neutral'. One other thing to remember is that the higher the load on a wire, the more voltage drop you get...

[cywelchjr]

That's another place they typically cut corners on bike harnesses...

You'll have multiple circuits run to a location (each with their own load), yet you'll only find one (or two if you're lucky) ground wires for the return path for all of them. And it's usually the same size as the supply wires, but is being asked to carry the added-together total. In most cases it's size is barely adequate, so if you have any issues at any connection, you start having problems. That's why having good, clean ground connections is so important. In electrical parlance, that's known as 'overloading the neutral'. One other thing to remember is that the higher the load on a wire, the more voltage drop you get...

Well, it's actually both proper electrical design, and cutting corners. Proper electrical design is to avoid having multiple paths to ground, it can cause what called a ground loop, which can cause havoc with electronic components, although more noticeable with audio gear, it's present in all cases. The cutting corners part is in not insuring the size of the ground path is large enough for all of the circuits combined. That said, if you can get things to work correctly by cleaning the connections, then it's not the wires that are the problem, it's the connections. Anything that's been in service for 30 years without the connections being cleaned is going to have problems in the connections, it's just a fact of life, and the closer you are to a salt water coastline, or an area that salts the roads in the winter, the worse it's going to be.

[crazy steve]

Proper electrical design is to avoid having multiple paths to ground, it can cause what is called a ground loop...

Heh heh...

I'll agree that under certain conditions you can establish a ground loop, but that's not the case here; this is about saving a few cents in manufacturing by providing an only 'adequate' wiring system. Grounding is poorly understood (even by the so-called 'experts) and this can be illustrated by the fact that most changes in the NEC every three years pertain to grounding. Things that were required at one time are now illegal, and vice-versa... Actually, most ground loop problems can be traced to a poor connection causing the power to take an unexpected path, or having a load somewhere in the ground path. I've also never heard of this being a problem in a DC circuit; this only shows up in AC to my knowledge.

Here it's a non-issue. Installing a jumper between the battery cable/frame junction to the regulator/frame connection couldn't possibly cause a loop as the frame is at the same potential at both points. Installing a jumper between these points is merely insurance against a poor connection as well as offering a 'better' path through the copper wire instead the poor-conducting steel. This is really a bonding jumper, and those are used all the time.

I'm not singling out Yamaha for my criticism; I've haven't seen a bike harness yet that doesn't suffer from most or all of the these problems...

[Twanginblues]

Interesting convo... I think I'll be trying the extra ground. First, I'll make sure the ones I have are clean.

Thanks for all the input here!!

[petejw]

Miti on the uk site did a good write up
about adding an extra wire from the neg earth (battery)
to the ground side of the regulator, ive added that
extra wire a little while ago and have no problems since
with corrosion on the terminals, heres a link for any1 thats
interested.

http://www.benefiscal.co.uk/forum/in...p?topic=4234.0