Newbies idiotic brake question...

[Lucky23]

Ok, first off, I've never owned a bike with disk brakes, and secondly Ive never owned a bike newer than 1972! So, my problem is that after attempting to bleed the front brakes according to the manual, the lever is hard as hell to pull. What am I doing wrong? Are the calipers shot? Should I stick to working on drum brakes??

[crazy steve]

I'll assume that the bike suffered some neglect that you needed to address...

If the brakes were/are an unknown quantity, you really should tear them down, clean/repair everything internally, then reassemble/bleed. You have done that, right?

[cywelchjr]

The lever will be hard to pull if things are working properly. The true test is if the brakes when applied actually apply stopping power to the wheel.

[petejw]

u might also wanna check the free play
in the lever, theres a screw that can be adjusted.

[CatatonicBug]

The lever will be hard to pull if things are working properly. The true test is if the brakes when applied actually apply stopping power to the wheel.

Agreed! If you can pull the lever all the way to the grip, there is something wrong. The lever should stop about 1/2" before it gets to the grip.

[DAVINCI]

How about when you release the lever? Is the wheel free to spin? Or is the brake locked up?

I second Steve's advice, the brake system is the most important thing on the bike.

[crazy steve]

There's been a bunch of questions/comments about brakes lately from new owners, and the same answer should apply to all of them; disassemble/clean the brakes! These are 30 year old machines, and the chances of getting one where the PO actually did proper brake system maintainence are near zero. I have yet to disassemble a XS brake component that didn't have at least some crap in it, even on brakes that were 'working'. On bikes that have sat for extended periods of time, this IMO should be a mandatory step before the bike is put back on the road.

One brake glitch, and people could be talking about you in the past tense...

[Lucky23]

Agreed. I just ordered rebuild kits for front and rear. This will be my first time rebuilding disk brakes, any tips/special tools I may need?

[DiverRay]

Read through the tech tips, and try to find some "needle nose" snap ring pliers. They will be needed to pull the snap ring(probably rusted) from the front and rear master cyl.
The big thing is clean EVERYTHING, use only brake fluid on ANY rubber part you want to re-use, and try to replace the brake lines if they are still the stock rubber lines. The black you will see in the brake fluid is the rubber from the inside of the lines.
Once done, and if you put stainless lines on the bike, it will stop quickly!

[XSive_speed]

Once done, and if you put stainless lines on the bike, it will stop quickly!

Has anybody come up with a kit for standards (or specials)?

We can always take measurements and discuss with the various break line outfits just how they want to measure so we get the right lengths, but it would be helpful if somebody had already done the research/trial/error and gotten the break line sets pre-selected as an oem replacement package.

[crazy steve]

Yeah, a pair of long-nose snap ring pliers are a must for the front master. MikesXS sells a decent pair, here: http://www.mikesxs.net/products-7.html?category_id=7.1 Scroll down, part number 35-0009. If you already have a set with 'interchangable tips' but they're too short, you can pick up a couple small allen wrenches of the same hex size and make your own 'long nose' pliers by grinding a tip on them.

A grease gun for getting the pistons out of the calipers may also be needed; you can use compressed air, but that doesn't always work and can be a bit dangerous. To use a grease gun, plug the brake line hole with a proper-sized bolt, then loosen the bleeder screw and attach the gun to it. Start pumping, and the piston will come right out.

Badly rusted/pitted pistons need to be replaced (look for SS replacements), and take a close look at the master cylinder internals. Generally, if the bike has lower miles you can just clean and reuse the caliper seals if there's no obvious damage.

As to the hoses, I can count on the fingers of one hand how many line failures I've seen. If they're badly dried out, swelling, have worn spots or cracking, by all means replace them. Yamaha recommended replacing the internal seals every two years and the lines every four, but nobody did that and you rarely hear about loss of pressure. 99% of the problems in the brakes on these is internal corrosion or contamination. Not to say an upgrade to stainless lines isn't a good thing, but if you're bucks down it isn't absolutely needed.

[natemoen]

Has anybody come up with a kit for standards (or specials)?

We can always take measurements and discuss with the various break line outfits just how they want to measure so we get the right lengths, but it would be helpful if somebody had already done the research/trial/error and gotten the break line sets pre-selected as an oem replacement package.

there is a seller on ebay that sells kits for both standards and specials, goes buy the name coastguard. Mixed reviews for him, most have not had a problem with them but a couple people have not had good luck with them. Think its 67 plus shipping for his lines.

HEL USA has a kit. probably 150 + for these

Other places have assemble your own kits as well.

[cywelchjr]

Read through the tech tips, and try to find some "needle nose" snap ring pliers. They will be needed to pull the snap ring(probably rusted) from the front and rear master cyl.
The big thing is clean EVERYTHING, use only brake fluid on ANY rubber part you want to re-use, and try to replace the brake lines if they are still the stock rubber lines. The black you will see in the brake fluid is the rubber from the inside of the lines.
Once done, and if you put stainless lines on the bike, it will stop quickly!

I will agree with this on the lines, but the other parts, will get cleaner and will not be damaged by hot soapy water. Just make sure to use a mild soap (dish soap is a good choice) and make sure they are thoroughly dried before reassembling.

I'll agree that the rule is nothing but either hot soapy water followed by a good drying, or brake fluid. But brake fluid is NOT a good cleaner, so I would recommend the soapy water, but nothing even faintly resembling any kind of solvent that is not designed for brakes.

[crazy steve]

there is a seller on ebay that sells kits for both standards and specials, goes buy the name coastguard. Mixed reviews for him, most have not had a problem with them but a couple people have not had good luck with them. Think its 6 plus shipping for his lines.

Other places have assemble your own kits as well.

I like the 'assemble your own'. No kits per se, but you can buy the various end fittings, then buy whatever hose length you need. One big advantage to this is if you have a non-stock combo, you can custom-fit. The 'kits' that are available are designed for stock bikes (with stock bars), so if you have something different the fit may not be the best, plus there's been some reported problems with ends not being 'aligned' requiring the line to be twisted to fit.

Plus you can get coated lines (I personally don't like bare braiding, which gets dirty and is very hard to clean and is also very hard on anything it rubs against), sometimes colors (at least black), chrome fittings. Cost is a bit more; about $12 for each banjo fitting, and about $30 per line, so a 'complete kit' would run you about $200.

[natemoen]

I am talking to HEL USA (they do have a 5 line kit right now) to see what a 4 line colored kit costs and what would need to be done to get the single rear line worked out.