Starter Clutch..

[gareth]

It's been pretty cold here in NYC for the past couple of weeks and I haven't taken the bike out for a ride in a while, even to test the new back-cut countershaft. I have been starting it once in a while. Typically, and I'm assuming this is because of the cold, the starter clutch slips. I am very familiar with the sound because my V65 used to do this all the time, even when it wasn't 30 degrees out... I get the quick rattle, and a pathetic wheeze that signals that the bike just doesn't want to catch and turn over.

My question is:- Does attempting to start the bike and having this problem actually CAUSE damage to the starter clutch? The bike will start eventually, ( I assume that whipping up the sump oil gets things moving easier..) but I'm just going to stop attempting to start it if it's likely to cause trouble.
My understanding is that its not an easy fix if it does go.

[DGXSER]

Other than maybe.....maybe adding load to thestarter, I do not see where it would cause problems that are not already there.

The biggest problem with the fix is it involves splitting the cases.

[James England]

Over here in the UK, for the first time in a hundred years, we had -16 degrees C temperatures. It was minus 17 where I live. Guess what? My ultra reliable bike had stood for a couple of months and I decided to charge up the battery and run the bike to warm the engine up a bit. My starter clutch did exactly what yours did. Click, electric drill sound, clunk. I'd say you don't have a problem and that it's the cold.

The oil in my engine was so damned cold that the clutch wouldn't disengage when I pulled in the lever. So I tried starting it whilst in 1st gear with the clutch pulled in (US bikes don't do that, I believe?) and it fired and just about when through the side of the shed! Once I'd got the oil warmed up, both 'problems' disappeared.

It's the cold........

Removing the starter clutch is a very big job which involves splitting the crankcases. If mine ever packs in, I'll be using the kickstart!

[motoman]

Whatever works England..(might wanna add an additional door for future assisted start-ups). Our 11's and most other scoots CAN be started in gear pulling the clutch.

[James England]

Whatever works England..(might wanna add an additional door for future assisted start-ups). Our 11's and most other scoots CAN be started in gear pulling the clutch.

Aaah... that's the bit we lack. We don't have any clutch operated electrics here. Mind you, pulling in the clutch didn't actually stop the bike from attempting to break out of the shed.... I think the oil had turned to the viscosity of treacle, so the clutch plates didn't disengage.... Presumably that clutch switch of yours stops the embarrasing situation where you hit the starter button, find it's still in gear and then lurch forward in a most un-cool fashion. This interesting manouevre can end in the bike lying on its side, rider under it with a pub carpark full of people laughing. Not that I've ever, ever done that, of course No, not me....

[DGXSER]

While this actually has not happened to me, I could just see the trip to the doctor to get the borken leg fixed if the bike fell on it.

Not sure who added what to my current 81, but it will not start if not in neutral. Pull the clutch all you want, but it will not start. My other 81 that was stock, this was not the case. So I believe someone did something to this one.

[motoman]

Same as what you have there anyways.......can start in gear as long as clutch is pulled in. My Honda ST1100 cannot be started in gear pulling the clutch in if the siestand is down, and sure there are many others switched at the sidestand also. Sounds like cold and thick oil for glue would be cause for an escape opening......

[cywelchjr]

I believe the XJ has an interlock, and maybe the 81's, but 80 and earlier has no interlock, can be started in gear with the clutch not pulled in just fine. Done it more than once on the center stand when testing things.

[LoHo]

Hey! Something I know about...finally!

I have fixed two starter clutches on various bikes. On one, the spring that pushes out the engaging bearing had been pinched and it worked about 10% of the time. On another, the housing had cracked and could not put enough pressure on to turn the crank, just a disturbing rattling/grinding noise.

In this case, I'd go with the "very cold engine" theory, which can be tested easily, as in warm up the bike. Would a spotlight closely set under the crankcase warm it up enough after a while? I'd bet so. Probably the same for the clutch plates, eh, mate? Or just park in the living room, if you aren't married, or don't wish to be any longer....

That being said, remember that I now have three project bikes and no riders. Following my advice has led to parted out bikes all over Ebay.

[motoman]

"very cold engine theory" and symptoms reminded me of when my Venturer was new and I rode it to work first winter having it. This also being in Durango, Colo.....so really cold at times. Not having a man-cave at the time it sat covered ouside. I would put another blanket on it under the bike cover, heat lamp under motor, counting on it starting......well, most of the time. At times when -20-25F it would crank just enough speed to hit a few times but not quite fire up. Then it would do the cough and kick-back thing. Was a few of those times that it didn't get ridden. If I knew then what I do now, it likely would have started a bit sooner had I rotated at least one petcock to PRIME. I would imagine the vacuum diaprams are fairly stiff at those temps and likely wouldn't pull off there seats to let fuel flow.......late afternoons getting home it would fire right up once above freezing. Way younger then as was the scoot, so todays riding preference is 50F or above even though it does have good protection from the elements. BTW, those cold rides were ten miles one way.....long enough to get REALLY cold!

[clcorbin]

For all the issues that some people have with synthetic oil, I LIKE it! I went to start my bike this morning at 9F. The starter spun free the first time I hit it (as it normally does when cold with synthetic oil in the case...). The second time, it grabbed and it fired right up. No dragging clutch, no slow cranking, no other cold weather "issues".

I should have tried starting it Tuesday morning when it was -13F when I got up. I just couldn't bring myself to go outside!

[fredintoon]

Same as what you have there anyways.......can start in gear as long as clutch is pulled in. My Honda ST1100 cannot be started in gear pulling the clutch in if the side stand is down, and sure there are many others switched at the side stand also.

Hi motoman,
FWIW, the XS650 starter will only work if the bike is in neutral. On later XS650s the ignition cuts out if the bike is put in gear with the sidestand down. No such over-protection on the XS11 though; despite both machines coming from the same factory at the same time.
Weird, innit?

[Ken Talbot]

For all the issues that some people have with synthetic oil, I LIKE it!

Any issues with clutch slippage?

[cywelchjr]

Hi motoman,
FWIW, the XS650 starter will only work if the bike is in neutral. On later XS650s the ignition cuts out if the bike is put in gear with the sidestand down. No such over-protection on the XS11 though; despite both machines coming from the same factory at the same time.
Weird, innit?

Interesting, as my 80 XS400 doesn't have any interlocks at all. I was pretty sure that they didn't put any on the 650's till 82 at least, although it might have been 81. But then since I have never had one, only talked to those who do, I can't say from first hand experience, where I'm guessing you can.

[fredintoon]

Interesting, as my 80 XS400 doesn't have any interlocks at all. I was pretty sure that they didn't put any on the 650's till 82 at least, although it might have been 81. But then since I have never had one, only talked to those who do, I can't say from first hand experience, where I'm guessing you can.

Hi Cy,
what XS650s all have is a "safety interlock" that won't let the starter work once the alternator starts making current.
On XS650s built after the "headlight on at all times" laws, that same interlock has a second relay that turns the headlight on.
Later XS650s, perhaps '81s or '82s but certainly my Canadian '84 Heritage Special, have a sidestand switch that cuts out the ignition if the bike is put into gear with the stand still down.