Quick question

[ManagerMike]

Never try to run anything without the battery conected if it HAS a battery.
That very old school test dates back to engines with generators and contact/breaker ignition systems. If it has an alternator and/or electronics of any sort you risk damage to said alternator and electronics. These bikes have both.
Proper charging voltage of any (nominal) 12 volt system is 13.5v to 15v. If you are within that range all is assumed to be well with the charging system.
You stated you have 14.6v at all rpms, that is a bit suspect. Check your meter on a cage's system, If it shows 14.6 there as well with and without the lights and blower on, your meter may have issues. If not, it is still possible to show charging voltage with a digital meter in the event of the failure of one diode in the rectifier. An analog voltmeter would show this type of failure, but who in the world (other than me) still has one of those?

[the108penguins]

I grounded my green coil wire to bypass the reg to see if that was the problem and I started getting anywhere from 13.8 at idle to 16.3 at 4.5k rpm but the battery still died so, would it be correct to assume that my problem is with the alternator?

List of assumptions

#1. I'm getting DC voltages which vary with the throttle therefore - the rectifier is working.

#2. When bypassing the regulator I get varying voltages (13.8-16.3) with the throttle. With the regulator connected normally the voltage stays at 14.6 at 2k rpm (when testing the reg according to the manual I get 2000 ohms one way and zilch the other way)

#3. With the bike running the alternator cover attracts a washer enough for it to stick to the cover bolts, so the alternator is working. (the resistance between all the white wires and the yellow is 0)

#4. the battery is only a year old and has been tested by my local auto shop and comes up as good. so the battery is good.

Ok so if all of this was true then my charging system would be working right? which of my assumptions is wrong. Do you need more information?

I'm currently working on a really tight budget so I'd like to not spend unnecessarily, plus I am planning to move and I don't need to accumulate "spare" parts.

[DiverRay]

This may sound dumb, but did you check ALL of you ground wires? If the ground from the battery to the frame, and frame to engine have too much resistance, you can't charge the battery. You can use anti-seize on the ground bolts to keep the rust away.
Sorry if you have tried that, but it's all I can think of.

[crazy steve]

#1. I'm getting DC voltages which vary with the throttle therefore - the rectifier is working.

#2. When bypassing the regulator I get varying voltages (13.8-16.3) with the throttle. With the regulator connected normally the voltage stays at 14.6 at 2k rpm (when testing the reg according to the manual I get 2000 ohms one way and zilch the other way).

For #1, that doesn't neccesarily mean the rectifier is good; that simply means at least some of the diodes are still good. As for 'testing the reg', what exactly did you test? The Clymer manual is somewhat vague about testing the regulator and I don't know that I agree with what they say. Here's the 'test chart' from the factory manual:

[IMG][/IMG]

Note that you should have the VOM set on R x 100 (100 ohm scale; any resistance more than 100 ohms should read as a 'open'). Read each pair of wires, and any that don't test out shows a bad diode. 'X' should be a low value, less than 10 ohms, and 'O' should be open. Find anything different, and you need a new regulator. If your meter is an 'autorange' type, you still want to see less than 10 ohms one way and a high value (1K ohms or more) the other way. They should all read pretty close to the same; if you have more than a 20% variation, I'd suspect a failing diode.

[the108penguins]

Hey DiverRay, nasty ground connections is something I would miss and it could be my problem though I have checked them. Thanks

Crazy steve so #1 and #2 are possible wrong but what about #3 and #4 would they hold true?

[crazy steve]

Hey DiverRay, nasty ground connections is something I would miss and it could be my problem though I have checked them. Thanks

Crazy steve so #1 and #2 are possible wrong but what about #3 and #4 would they hold true?

First, I'll correct my last post (doing this late at night doen't always lead to the clearest expression of thoughts...); you should reverse what I said about the X and Os. The X should be open, etc.

#3, again that simply demonstrates that you have power to the 'field winding' but doesn't have to mean the alternator is working. As for the resistances at the white wires, you should have .4 ohm (+/- 10%) between any two white wires. Less than that, the stator is shorted internally, more than that means the coil is trying to go 'open'. In either case, the stator needs to be replaced. I don't know what 'yellow' wire you're testing to; you shouldn't have continuity to any other wires from the three whites (or to ground). If you do, the stator is bad. Also check the field winding; you should have 3.5 ohms (+/- 10%) between the green and brown wires. Same as the stator winding; high/low readings or any continuity to ground and it's bad.

Make sure your VOM can read low resistances accurately; some cheap meters can't and if yours is one of them testing with it will be a waste of time. If you're not getting the stated values, either the part is bad or your meter is off.

As to the battery, if it takes/holds a charge, load-tests good, and will start the bike when installed I'd say it's probably good. But until the charging system is known to be operating improperly, it's not off the table.

[the108penguins]

well I've ordered a new reg and stator off of ebay (listed as in good working order and tested and they were a few hours south of me here in florida) we'll see if they are representing them properly. I'll let you guys know of the results when I get them installed.

[foreda]

Charging

OK.. Here comes a dumb question.. Did you have the battery load tested? Just because it is charging does not mean it will hold a charge. I have seen batteries fail out of the box.

[the108penguins]

I took it into the auto parts store and asked them to test it. I assumed that they load tested it but I don't know for sure. they hooked it up to a fancy looking machine and it took a few minuets while it ran through all the tests.

[psycoreefer]

hey, I don't know if you solved your problem with your new used parts but I'm going to post what I found anyways.

I just recently found I had the same problem, 14.7v at idle. Didn't change when reving - steady 14.7. I tried two different meters, good battery, checked them on the cage and got reasonable numbers.

I tested the reg/rectifier unplugged using the posted sheet and it checks out good - high resistance one way, low the other, everything seemed fine - then I went back and did the very first test.

You know the one that is partially cut off on the posted page but continues on as f. g. h. and i. That test failed, I had about 1 volt with key on, but then after starting it stayed low, below 4 volts and the manual says that it should be 9 to 11.

I grabbed the reg/rec off the other xs in the garage, it tested the same on the "static" tests but when I plugged it in I got the proper 10.2 volts during running on that first test.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the reg/rec can fail in such a way that it passes the resistance/continuity tests when unplugged.

[the108penguins]

I thought this would bw a quick question but it has turned out to be a couple pages and a few weeks long. So I've replaced the stator, reg/rect and did a through cleaning of the ground connections. There are only two main grounds that I know of #1. from the battery - terminal to the frame and #2. from the frame to the engine one of the middle drive bolts. so after all this it still will only run for 10 min before the battery is drained below the 10v limit and the bike shuts off. The bugger is that I've had the battery tested twice and it tested good both times. can the battery still be at fault? It does seem to take a charge and will then run the bike for a little while. What about the ground wire? I checked the ground from the battery to the frame and it had 5A running through it but the ground from the engine to the frame didn't register anything. Any ideas guys... I'm starting to consider the cliff and sledge hammer fix about now.

[cywelchjr]

I thought this would bw a quick question but it has turned out to be a couple pages and a few weeks long. So I've replaced the stator, reg/rect and did a through cleaning of the ground connections. There are only two main grounds that I know of #1. from the battery - terminal to the frame and #2. from the frame to the engine one of the middle drive bolts. so after all this it still will only run for 10 min before the battery is drained below the 10v limit and the bike shuts off. The bugger is that I've had the battery tested twice and it tested good both times. can the battery still be at fault? It does seem to take a charge and will then run the bike for a little while. What about the ground wire? I checked the ground from the battery to the frame and it had 5A running through it but the ground from the engine to the frame didn't register anything. Any ideas guys... I'm starting to consider the cliff and sledge hammer fix about now.

There is another. The ground wires where the reg attaches to the frame.

It's probably more important than than the one from the engine to the frame as I didn't even have that so it was grounded through the exhaust. But if you don't have the ground for the reg, it wont charge.

If the battery is running down while riding it's not being charged. If it's running down while idling, then it may be the battery as these bikes don't charge at idle.

[the108penguins]

yea i've got the reg grounded with those two black wires. These bikes don't charge at idle? yea it's running down at idle.

[natemoen]

The reg/rec grounds through the body of the unit to the frame under it with the bolt that hold ot down.

No these bikes do not charge at idle. You have to get the rpms up around 3000 before your going to be charging the battery.

[crazy steve]

You seem to be chasing your tail on this one; the only way to check electrical components is by being methodical and eliminating them one by one.

First, did you actually confirm that your stator/regulator were bad? Throwing parts at these sort of problems isn't usually a good plan.

How about your field winding? Have you confirmed that it's within spec? Just because a washer will stick to the cover doesn't mean it's working right.

Are you getting the proper 14.2-14.6 volts at 2000 rpm and above?

How about your connections between the regulator and the stator/field coil? Probe for voltage on both sides on the plugs, and if you find a difference, your connection is bad.

Have you tried pulling the two fuses that don't go to the ignition to see if you have excessive load somewhere else? If that helps, put them back one at a time to determine which circuit it is, then start tracing.

As to seeing current at the ground wire from the battery to the frame, yes, you should. None at the wire between the frame and motor would be normal, as this wire will only see significant current when the starter is powered. Except for the neutral and oil lights, everything else is grounded to the frame. The 5 amps you're reporting at the ground wire is low if the wiring system is still configured as stock (I would expect to see roughly 10 amps with the bike running), so that brings your meter accuracy into question again. If your meter is lying to you, you're wasting your time...

How about the battery? Does it hold a charge overnight? Is it the right size battery? Are you sure you're starting with a fully charged battery? I'd recharge it (a full charge will take 10-12 hours at the recommended 2 amp rate) then retest it and verify that it passes a load test.