Kickstart Shaft Washer

[gareth]

http://picasaweb.google.com/agfitz/K...eat=directlink

I have been doing the second gear fix and finally got the countershaft back in and it all seems to be shifting fine although I haven't had it on the road yet. It was much easier to fit the countershaft with the kickstart mechanism removed. The problem now is reinstalling the kickstart shaft with the countershaft gears in place. There is just no way I am stripping the countershaft and shift forks out of there again to fit the kickstart gear- it took waaay to long to get them reinstalled.
The large gear on the countershaft is stopping the kickstart gear from going into place. I took the mechanism apart and there is no way that I can wiggle it in. I am pretty sure I can get the thing back together again if I can only figure out how to remove the heavy spacer washer at the thin end of the shaft. This way I can just line everything up and push the shaft through. I haven't come across anything like this before. The washer seems to be made of heavy stamped steel and it looks like it is maybe crimped on the shaft. It's free to rotate and I thought that I could just drift it off but its ON there. It strikes me that a circlip would have been just as easy a way of making this washer secure but in the meantime I'm stumped..
Grind it off and fab a replacement ?? Or have I missed something ?
Its an obscure part, I know.
But maybe someone has come across this before.

Regards,

Gareth.

[trdriver71]

It might be a shrink fit meaning you will have to heat it up to get it off.

[Rasputin]

Are you refering to #18 in the pic below? That is a shim so I would not go grinding it.

[trdriver71]

Are you refering to #18 in the pic below? That is a shim so I would not go grinding it.

I think he means the washer near the end of 9 if you look at his pictures he has everything else off except that one.

[Rasputin]

I bet you would be right. I missed the link for the pics.

[gareth]

The part that I am having trouble with is the thick washer on the end of part #9 in the schematic. If you look at the link in the original post it shows the washer/ spacer that I am talking about. I expect that this was crimped or somehow shrunk onto the shaft with no expectation that it would ever need to be removed. It's only because I messed up the order of assembly of the gears that I am considering removing it; the washer has to come off to allow me to push the shaft through the kickstart gear that contacts the countershaft..
If I can't figure something out then I will just leave the kickstart disabled. But it would be nice to have it working..
Still, there is no way I'm taking that countershaft out again...

[trdriver71]

Have you tried heating it up to get the washer off?

[Rasputin]

Looking again at the fiche pic it looks like that is not designed to come off there. Maybe Trdriver71 is right about heat. I would take the countershaft back out if it were me, simply because it will be months before riding time again here. I have only ever used the kick start once and that was just to see how hard it was to kick over. So no big deal to leave it out either.

[James England]

Looking again at the fiche pic it looks like that is not designed to come off there. Maybe Trdriver71 is right about heat. I would take the countershaft back out if it were me, simply because it will be months before riding time again here. I have only ever used the kick start once and that was just to see how hard it was to kick over. So no big deal to leave it out either.

Weren't some XS1100's made with the kickstart shaft entirely missing and the engine casing cast with the hole blanked off? I've only ever used the kickstart once.... and even then, it was only to see how difficult/easy to start the bike would be.

On TWO donor engines in the last two months, I have driven myself mad trying to get the countershaft back in after the washer switch (see my previous posts) and it simply would not go. I then removed the kickstart shaft etc as per this thread... still no go. Nothing made that countershaft go back in on either engine but the minute the washer was back where it should be, the countershafts went back.

What I've learned from trying out this procedure on two engines is that, if I ever need to do my transmission, I'll use new gears and leave the washer where it is.

[natemoen]

I believe it started in 80 that they left the kickstart shaft out. hole is there just has a plug over it. you can put the kickstart in those engines.

[bikerphil]

I have eliminated the kick mechanism on both my 79's. Just knock the seal out of the clutch cover and use a 1/2" carriage bolt with a garden hose washer thru the cover (fits perfectly) and a lock nut on the inside. IMHO, it's easier to roll the bike and bump start in 2nd gear than kicking it if needed.

[3Phase]

Gareth, I only have direct experience with three of the late-model engines and transmissions but they all had the kickstart idler gear in the transmission, just minus the ratchet, the outer kickstart lever shaft, return spring and gears.

I think Yamaha used the internal kicker idler gear/shaft assembly to help stabilize the 1st gear wheel and minimize wear from the 1st gear wheel wobbling on the shaft. If it wasn't necessary they would have saved a couple of yen and left the idler gear completely out of the late-model engines.

Unfortunately, there is no way to put the idler gear and shaft assembly back into the engine with the transmission gears installed unless you remove the engine and split the case because you can't finagle the idler gear behind the 1st gear wheel and install the idler shaft.

If you want to reinstall the idler gear and idler shaft you have to remove the transmission gear cluster; install the idler gear and idler shaft; reinstall the gear cluster.

[SFerinTEXAS]

This post seems to shed some light on this discussion perhaps are some good pics

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ckstart&page=2

[gareth]

Hmmmm. So am I courting 1st gear transmission troubles by NOT having the idler gear support for 1st gear? I am pretty sure I can reinstall the shaft and gear if I remove that washer, but if I reinstall it loose, not peened over, am I going to cause more trouble? And just to confirm, those of you with later bikes/no OEM kickstart, still have this gear and shaft in place?

[DGXSER]

Both of my 81 Specials have NOT had that gear, and neither did another 81 Special I worked on. So not to say Scott is wrong, but I am fairly certain on two of those occasions, no one had been inside there to pull it out before.

I do not think you will have ANY problems by not having it in there. Unless you just want to have the kickstart function, I would consider it insanity to go back in and pull that countershaft again, just to put the kickstart gears in place. JMHO.