drive line question

[Sherry Shook]

first and second gear at high RPM"s 6000 up skips a beat does not come out of gear.

Feels more like a chain skipping a cog or a final drive assemble problem.

This is on our 79 XS 1100 special.

Has anyone ever experienced this scenrio and know of a solution.

Again it shifts fine, does not pop out of gears, but has this problem only upon high RPM acceleration. WOT

Just us,
Sherry & her motorhead Mark

79f XS1100
79sf XS1100
and growing

[bkr]

Drive line

This is common on xs-xj bikes . It may get worse. I installed second,fifth gears, three shifting forks in my xj. Cured the problem in low. Have had one miss in second since , after 15000KLM. Will move second gear washer this winter. Hope this helps. bkr

[TopCatGr58]

Dear Sherry,

What you described IS the 1st and 2nd gear malady that we all know too well. It won't actually slip completely out of gear, like into neutral, but it slaps back and forth in and out of mesh...giving you that feeling. However, I'm a little surprised that you're feeling it in those higher revs, vs. the lower revs!

Mine started in 1st, and at almost any RPM if I cracked open the throttle and put too much torque/stress on it, then it would skip, started easing out in 1st, then shifted to 2nd, then hit the throttle, but it finally started in 2nd as well, that's when I parked it. 9 years later, found this site, and links to the 2nd gear fixes, and performed the Dremmel fix on mine, both 1st/4th and 2nd/5th, hasn't skipped now for 2 years!!

Check out the tech tips for the 2nd gear fixes!!!! T.C.

[Redbaron]

Agreed

I agree with the guys, however I'd be sure to check the clutch adjustment first, switched to synthetic oils and had a minor slipping problem at higher revs, adjusted clutch at the assembly, not the cable. Problem went away, also switched back to pure dino juice, haven't noticed any more problems. Always eliminate the simple things first. Maybe you've done this, but didn't see it in your post.

[Sherry Shook]

drive line question

Thanks Redbaron, I didn't metion it in our post but he just replaced all of the clutch plates, so it sounds like he will have a winter transmission project.

Clutch was slipping, so replaced with the new clutch, but still have the same problem.

Anyone want to come to Westervile, Ohio and help?? Freee room and board and beer!!!!

Sherry & her motorhead (mark)

[bkr]

Hi Sherry, In my post i got the gear # wrong ,should have read #1 @ #4 sorry. You will find #4 has a bushing that is quite narrow and will have excessive movement on the shaft. When RPM gets high #4 gear will move away from#1 and cause what you describe. I will install a thin spacer between middle drive gear @1 this winter .I hope it works! Check xs transmissions- pictures@ explanation ,you @ motorhead can DO IT. bkr Free food @BEER sure sounds good.

[Sherry Shook]

anytime

Anytime you want to take a long run, head to Westerville, ohio for room board and free food and beer, only one request bring some Canadian beer(good Stuff),\.

You have a place to stay on a ride about. Just let us know, cause he retires in Dec and we may be passing threw your territroy and need a guide.

Thanks
Sherry & Mark

[strom]

Theres a safety on the secondary shaft. A clutch-like thingie with 2 U shaped axles (looks like universal joint), compressed together by a strong spring. If the power from the primary shaft via chain is too strong, they will slip, compressing the spring.
Now that spring is one strong motherf***er, but it can still skip (did it by hand when tightening a nut).
It basically prevents XSive force to be applied to the gearbox/clutch/stuff. It might be that. Or it might be the gearbox. Check it out before buying new parts. It didnt happen to me during a ride, but the rear tire made lost grip a few times. Maybe with better tires.....
Check out the microfiches.... its the shaft where primary chain goes to. On the left side theres the spring and U stuff just right of it. The spring looks like a bunch of big parallel washers.

LP

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Sherry, and Strom,

The old adage, if you hear hoofprints, don't go looking for ZEBRAS!? With the track record of these bikes, I would bet it all on the gears, 1st and 2nd. I forgot to tell you, and I need to probably add it to the tech tips, but I wrote up a simple how to tear down and perform the Dremmel repair along with a bunch of pictures and posted it in the Yahoo site that is also visited by folks here.

If you will go to Yahoo, to the groups, and look for "allxs11s", and then join, you'll have to send an email to the owner and or asst. moderator to verify who you are, (helps keep out spammers and such snooping for lists of email addresses!), then you'll be able to view the files section, tips and tricks, and you'll find the gear fix info and pictures.

Some folks have spent a fair amount of $$ buying new gears to replace their old ones. I have done the Dremmel fix on 3 bikes now, my XS and 2 XJ's, and they both seem to be running fine with no skipping. I just wish I knew about how to reharden the outside of the gears after cutting them, but when/if they fail again, then I can either get more gears, or another set of used gears that haven't been ground, and Dremmel them!

T.C.

[mitch]

Hardening metal

TC , I saw a machinest harden some metal once at a shop he heated it with a torch then cooled it in motor oil. Sorry i dont know how hot you are spose to make it but it wasnt red i think just before but a good machnist could tell u . HTH ....MITCH

[ratbyk]

Hardening Steel

Mitch, the type of hardening you refer to is known as; "case hardening". It only toughens up the surface or first few thousands of an inch of the steel. You do take it up to a cherry red before quenching.
Would not do to already hardened gear sets. The heat would destroy the existing hardening process on the gears.
Info only.
Ken/Sooke
78E Ratbyk
82 FT500 "lilRat"

[Jerry]

transmission repair tips

Sherry, if you have not already visited this page, it is really worth a look:

http://www.rctvonline.net/xs11/

Ken Talbot has done a terrific job of collecting transmission repair info, including photos, part numbers, problems and solutions of the xs/xj transmission.

Several other good tech tips on the same site; really worth looking over!

[TopCatGr58]

Hard Questions!

Hey there Ken,

Yeah, I read some articles online about how to harden steel, and they talked about how if you didn't have the right temps and quenching temps, that you could actually reduce the hardness. I also read though, that parts like gears are only outer hardened, not thru and thru, and that's just was I was looking for, to be able to re-harden the contact surfaces after grinding/cutting off the rounded worn areas!?

Who knows, maybe exposure to the engine heat, and the oil bath will perform a slow natural hardening of them as they are used?! Oh well!
T.C.