XJ11 brake issues

[KA1J]

I've come to find a few issues with the brakes on this XJ11.

If I back straight up it rolls pretty easily considering the weight. If I turn the front wheel counterclockwise just a tad, backing up is all I can do and if I go fully counterclockwise it binds. To the right has some binding but only at the end of clockwise rotation.

Looking at the pads they look like there's a lot of life left on them. The reservoir for the front brakes shows no leakage over the last month of use. Feeling the discs after braking, it did seem like the left one was hotter than the right or rear.

The front brake seems to have no play to it, it's firm and as soon as I squeeze it, it starts to engage. On the XJ650 there is a bit of play all along on the front brake and I have Stainless lines on the 650, these on the XJ11 look to be stock. It's pretty hard to squeeze the front lever, it's really firm.

I've also found that when I apply brakes, sometimes they do not release fully and I can feel the resistance to rolling; Pulling in the clutch & the bike will coast quickly to a stop where it doesn't want to go forward & backward. A short bit later it releases and I can go forward.

The oil filler screw came loose on the engine and oil spritzed around and seems to have affected the rear pads somewhat as it does not grip as well as before the oil got on them.

I suppose the right thing is to replace the pads all around as I don't know how old they are and the PO is not of help. I've considered the pistons are not releasing in the calipers. Never have run into this before.

I'd appreciate suggestions of what the problem likely is with the turning issue & what I can do to get these running properly.

Thanks

[natemoen]

If they are not releasing properly I would bet the spooge hole is clogged and its time to break the brakes down and do a good cleaning.

I am not sure how the xj and xs specials set the brake spacing but the standards its all set by moving the fork legs side to side and tightening the bolts. So if its the same on the XJ you could look at that.

[bikerphil]

If you crack open the bleeder screw and they release, it's a clogged spooge hole. If they still don't release, there is crud in the caliper(s) belind the rubber piston seal. Your brake lever play can be adjusted. For the front, there is a screw on the hand lever. For the rear pedal, the plunger rod has an adjustment on it.

[crazy steve]

Good advice from both, but I'd tend to think it's the 'spooge' hole at the master cylinder. In any case, if there's that much crap in system, I recommend disassembling/cleaning it all.

Keep in mind that the XJ has a oddball 'linked' system (shared with the '81LH Midnight only) unlike the brakes on other XS models. The link is one front caliper is 'linked' with the rear (actuated with the rear brake pedal) and the other front is by itself off the handlebar master. For service/adjustment procedures if you don't have a XJ manual, use the info for a LH. Some owners have converted these to 'normal' front/rear, but you'll need new lines (good time to upgrade to braided) and at least a new handlebar master cylinder.

[cywelchjr]

Also you mentioned that you got oil on the rear pads, that means they are NOT working properly.

Also, the XJ has linked brakes if in stock configuration, which means that the pedal works both the right front (I believe) and rear brakes and the handle works the left front (I might have the sides reversed but you get the idea).

Another issue that has been found that can ACT like the spooge hole problem is if the adjustment for the rear MC is set too tight, and the plunger is not returning far enough. I forget who ran into that and found the problem but it can be solved in that case by making sure there is at least a slight amount of freeplay in the rear pedal linkage.

I have found my XS brakes to have VERY LITTLE give to them. When I pull in the lever, there is very little movement of the lever after the brakes start to grip, with apparently very little rubber line expansion which is amazing for stock lines. I did adjust the free play on the front lever on mine as I was not comfortable with how far the lever was out when the brakes engaged, so I adjusted it so it gets in a bit before the brakes bite.

[SFerinTEXAS]

I agree here.

I recommend disassembling/cleaning it all.

[CatatonicBug]

I agree here.

+1. If it hasn't been done in recent memory, do it. It might just save your life. It only takes a couple of hours, and you won't have to do it again for several years.

[KA1J]

Yes it does sound like tip to toe cleaning is in line. I guess that is where money and need meet the road. I've been pricing the rebuild kits for the master cylinders, the hose replacement (stainless braid sounds right), caliper rebuild kits, new brake pads all around)

I feel like if I don't do all the rebuilding above, I'm begging for trouble. I really have no idea if it's a waste of money that could go into other things and a simple thorough cleaning & looking for cracks in the hoses is sufficient. I don't have to decide this minute, it's winter & I have lots of free time to do this.

I would just like to not waste money and yet do a good job.

[crazy steve]

You may not need rebuild kits, as many times just a thorough cleaning will do the trick. Sure, if you find rusted internals in the masters, pitted pistons or the seals are obviously worn, new rubber will probably be called for, but look before you spend...

[natemoen]

I agree with Steve, if they are working well (albeit a little funky) it is possible that there is nothing wrong other than old sludge for brake fluid. Like you said, its winter, pull it apart and see what you have to work with.

[DGXSER]

Yep, I've been through several brake systems on the XS11s and never yet bought a rebuild kit. Even with Banshee which sat in a abrn for three years and had goo for brake fluid, all it needed was a good cleaning.

The S/S brake lines is a really good idea though. I would invest there. Pads, well that depends how worn yours are and if they got brake fluid leaking on them. Pats-n-more sells the pads pretty reasonable.

[KA1J]

Some excellent ideas!

I'd never known about clearing out the spooge hole much less that there even is a bottleneck in the brake system both fore & aft. I searched & found here: http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/tech-t...oge-holes.html for cleaning instructions. If there's crud in the line as Steve said, disassembling & cleaning the system is what to do.

One of my concerns is that rubber components might need to be replaced after 29 years, at the same time none of the hoses look affected by age. Still, on my XJ650J I replaced the original lines with S.S. braid line & I think I'm also going to do that with this beautiful XJ11. What I wonder is if it matters if the other rubber components should be replaced as well. What comes to mind is a friend of mine has a 1928 Model A pickup and there are very few parts that are not original on it, the goal being to have it as 100% original as possible. Old parts can well be viable & I just don't want to waste money replacing parts that are just fine. The easy answer is replace everything but I wonder if that's really necessary with this 1982 vehicle, I just wonder about the rubber parts.

As to the pads; looking at them it looks like the front are pretty thick & have plenty of wear left. I did get a small amount of engine oil on the rear pads and I don't know how to effectively remove the surface of them and still be sure I'll get good contact. Because of that I think I need to replace the rear pads but... is there any issue with old yet thick pads a'la the front ones? I don't know how old they are as I'm not the original owner.

What I do know about the front brakes is that the rotors are not original. There are yellow paint letters written on the inner part of them as if they may have come from a salvage vehicle and the marks remain on the inner part where the pads have not erased the ink marking them for what they were for resale. Because of that & the thickness of the front pads, I think the front brakes are new, not original. The P.O. won't return my calls to give me any info.

All said, thanks for the help & I've learned a lot about the XJ11 braking system because of the suggestions & thoughts here. It's wonderful to have such a resource as XS11.

FWIW, I have made a donation to XS11 because a resource like this deserves to be funded.

I really appreciate the help.

[DGXSER]

Some excellent ideas!

I'd never known about clearing out the spooge hole much less that there even is a bottleneck in the brake system both fore & aft. I searched & found here: http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/tech-t...oge-holes.html for cleaning instructions. If there's crud in the line as Steve said, disassembling & cleaning the system is what to do.

One of my concerns is that rubber components might need to be replaced after 29 years, at the same time none of the hoses look affected by age. Still, on my XJ650J I replaced the original lines with S.S. braid line & I think I'm also going to do that with this beautiful XJ11. What I wonder is if it matters if the other rubber components should be replaced as well. What comes to mind is a friend of mine has a 1928 Model A pickup and there are very few parts that are not original on it, the goal being to have it as 100% original as possible. Old parts can well be viable & I just don't want to waste money replacing parts that are just fine. The easy answer is replace everything but I wonder if that's really necessary with this 1982 vehicle, I just wonder about the rubber parts.

Short answer is that the SS brake lines are definitely a recommended change. The seals I have reused on every brake caliper and MC I have worked on with these bikes so far. None have given me any problems.

As to the pads; looking at them it looks like the front are pretty thick & have plenty of wear left. I did get a small amount of engine oil on the rear pads and I don't know how to effectively remove the surface of them and still be sure I'll get good contact. Because of that I think I need to replace the rear pads but... is there any issue with old yet thick pads a'la the front ones? I don't know how old they are as I'm not the original owner.

If it were my bike, I'd leave the fronts if there is plenty of meat on them. I'd go ahead and replace the rear though. I think the XJ rear is the same as the other XS rears. But the fronts a squirly IIRC.

What I do know about the front brakes is that the rotors are not original. There are yellow paint letters written on the inner part of them as if they may have come from a salvage vehicle and the marks remain on the inner part where the pads have not erased the ink marking them for what they were for resale. Because of that & the thickness of the front pads, I think the front brakes are new, not original. The P.O. won't return my calls to give me any info.

Shame about the no return calls bit. Must be afraid you found the crap he tried to hide from you.

[bikerphil]

BTW, the rear pads for your XJ11 are the same as right front pads for the 79-81 XS11 Special (not the 81 Midnight). Might be easier to find them that way.

[crazy steve]

..One of my concerns is that rubber components might need to be replaced after 29 years, at the same time none of the hoses look affected by age. Still, on my XJ650J I replaced the original lines with S.S. braid line & I think I'm also going to do that with this beautiful XJ11. What I wonder is if it matters if the other rubber components should be replaced as well..

Exposure to the UV in sunlight and ozone is what generally kills rubber, and most of the brake rubber seals will have had little or none of that due to where they're located. Add in the fact that the rubber used for brake parts is nearly always of much better formulation compared to what's used eleswhere.

If you want 100% surety that your brakes are the very best they can be, yeah, you probably want to replace everything. But unless there's obvious damage or leaking already present, I personally wouldn't have a problem with reusing most if not all of them. If any of the seals go bad, you'll usually have ample warning before it gets to where brake performance is dangerous. Hoses would be the exception, as a problem there is bad...

As far as the rear pads that got some oil on them, I've had decent results from cleaning with (sometimes soaking) them in brake cleaner to remove oil. If the oil has been really baked in, they may be toast, but a coating only will usually clean off.