XJ11 Starter rebuild kit?

[KA1J]

I want to rebuild the starter for the XJ11 and asked the place where I got a kit for my XJ650 Maxim if they had one for the XJ11. They said no.

Any suggestions of a good rebuild kit for this starter (Not sure if it is the same as the XS11 starter).

Thanks

& Happy Thanksgiving

[bikerphil]

The XS11 and XJ11 starters are the same. They are a dime a dozen on ebay and they very rarely go bad. Here's a rebuild kit....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CB450...ltDomainQ5f100

[KA1J]

Thanks!

I saw that one earlier on ebay but I didn't know if it was for the same starter.

I've found that in the cooler weather I sometimes can't get the starter to engage unless I thump the side of the starter. It's happened a few times now, I push the start button repeatedly with no result. Several times the starter spun but did not engage but it hasn't done that except the first few days I had the bike (About a month now).

Once it's warm there seems to be no issue and usually it works fine. I'm guessing the brushes might be not making a good connection either from wear or conductive gunk from the wear & brush dust accumulating on the copper sections on the armature where the brushes engage.

I thought it might be the solenoid but it was by bumping the starter cover that the starter immediately works if it's balking. I wouldn't think bumping the starter would affect the solenoid, unless the solenoid is located in/on the starter. It's remote from the starter on the XJ650 Maxim which my only prior XJ/XS experience

[cywelchjr]

Well, if the starter spins but doesn't turn the motor over, even replacing the starter won't help, because that would be the starter clutch, which is inside the engine and requires splitting the cases to replace. Randy who used to be on here, rebuild his engine last winter and replaced the parts and his still doesn't work. So he has some new parts and is going to do it again this winter, hopefully with better results.

[KA1J]

Ugh... I hope things aren't going to come to that. It hasn't spun for 3 weeks or so & I've had it for one month. The push starter button = nothing happens when it's pretty cold. Boy, I'd hate to have to split the case on this, I don't mind working on the bike but that can be problematic, especially doing it all the heavy work by myself, I ain't no kid anymore...

[cywelchjr]

Ugh... I hope things aren't going to come to that. It hasn't spun for 3 weeks or so & I've had it for one month. The push starter button = nothing happens when it's pretty cold. Boy, I'd hate to have to split the case on this, I don't mind working on the bike but that can be problematic, especially doing it all the heavy work by myself, I ain't no kid anymore...

If it's not spinning at all (the starter) that could be brushes, so it's a matter of just what is happening. If the starter spins the but engine doesn't turn over, thats the starter clutch, if the starter doesn't spin at all it could be the solenoid or the starter.

Now heres a strange question, what type and weight of oil are you using? Wrong weight for the temps can cause starter clutch issues, if it's too thick it can interfere. Also, it's been said the much like with the clutch, synthetic oil can cause starter clutch problems because of it being slicker than dino oil. So, it's hard to diagnose from here, but can you describe the symptoms in more detail?

[KA1J]

If it's not spinning at all (the starter) that could be brushes, so it's a matter of just what is happening. If the starter spins the but engine doesn't turn over, thats the starter clutch, if the starter doesn't spin at all it could be the solenoid or the starter.

Now heres a strange question, what type and weight of oil are you using? Wrong weight for the temps can cause starter clutch issues, if it's too thick it can interfere. Also, it's been said the much like with the clutch, synthetic oil can cause starter clutch problems because of it being slicker than dino oil. So, it's hard to diagnose from here, but can you describe the symptoms in more detail?

Yes, what is currently the issue is intermittent "not spinning, not clicking when I hit start". The "spinning but not engaging" happened maybe 2-3 times & that was immediately after I got the bike.

As to the oil, the oil that came with it I don't know. I discovered the carbs/petcock/diaphragm were failing when I accidentally left it on prime overnight and found overflow from the airbox outflow tube I then changed oil to a 10-40 dino wet clutch motorcycle oil (can't recall the brand but it is well known & I got it at Auto Zone). This was maybe 3-4 days after getting the bike. I repaired the petcocks and diaphragm immediately, the carbs will get rebuilt maybe this weekend.

I changed from dino to Amsoil 20-50 wet clutch oil on my 82XJ650 Maxim last April & everything improved markedly in shifting. Liking how that improved the shifting on that bike, I ran the dino in the XJ11 till last weekend to clear out any residual gas in the oil and Sunday night I replaced the dino with Amsoil 20-50.

Looking at the time line, I don't recall any "spinning but not engaging" since I changed oil. The intermittent "not spinning or clicking at all" has been there with both the dino and the Amsoil.

Usually I can hit start a few times and it spins & engages. Most of the time it cranks immediately. Here's an example of what happens when it fails: I was leaving a gig Sunday night and when I was tried to start it, nothing happened except the light went out when I hit start as expected. Nothing happened after 5-6 times trying & I kicked the starter cover with my heel to try & jar it into operation and it immediately started the next time I hit start.

I just started it 20 minutes ago and it started just fine. Definitely intermittent.

Idears?

[cywelchjr]

I would start by checking the starter button, the kicking could be coincidence. Then check for solenoid operation by bridging across it when things are not working as see what happens (all without the kick) and if it still keeps failing it probably needs fixed. Frankly you can probably get a good one cheaper than a rebuild kit, but maybe not.

Sounds like starter clutch is ok, it was probably just sticky when you got it. One way to check to see if the solenoid is working (just remembered this) is to put a VOM from the starter side of the solenoid to ground, and measure what you get when you push the button. If you get nothing, it's either the switch or solenoid, if you get battery voltage, then it may be the starter.

[KA1J]

Cy,

Thanks for the thoughts. I'll give them a go. Need to find out where the solenoid is on the XJ11, should be easy to get to that from the manual.

One other thing I've noticed is an extra whirring sound immediately upon starting. It sounds like a tiny electric motor for maybe 2 -3 seconds. Not always there but I just moved the bike to a new position in the driveway and it engaged but I had to crank it for a little bit to get it to start (carbs issue) and when it did I heard that high extra whine over the engine noise. First time I heard it I thought it sounded like a tiny motor in the carbs...

Perhaps the starter clutch is not fully disengaging immediately?

A new sound to my ears, not present on the XJ650.