My new XS- Can this crack be welded?

[mharrington]

Some history on me. I bought a 79 XS1100 a year ago with a wasted tranny. Thought it was in my skill level to fix second gear. Got it apart and every gear on the countershaft was gone- pinions and dogs worn beyond resurfacing. Decided real quick doing a tranny rebuild is indeed beyond my level of skill. ( a Members in the Grand Rapids area did offer help so THANK YOU!) A week ago a beautifull 79 XS1100F came up on the list fro a grand. I ended up trading my 78 XS750E triple and $200 for this 1100. This 1100 standard looks great and runs fantastic...and the tranny works great! (30,000 miles) It has an oil leak that I was sure was the cam chain tensioner assmbly. I have a spare bike (project I bailed on) so I installe an extra tensioned assembly that has a new gasket O ring and a sealed plug. However the real leak still exists. The center head fastener- the ear that is part of the jugs,cyl is cracked. The darkisk line that goes horizontally across the top of the chain tensioner is indeed a crack with oil seeping out. There was JB weld all around there and I though it was an attempt to seal the tensioner without removing the tensioner. (Yes I was nervous replacing the tensioner but I was successful.) I ground away the JB and did not see a crack till I ran the engine and watched. Can I have this welded- engine in the bike as it sits? I would trailer it to a weld shop- not ride it. It is beyond my skill and motivation the remove the jug and for repair and re install. I do have another engine with a good top end and again a cyl piston and head swap is beyond my skill. I am willing to pay a home mechanic good money but I cant afford even mom and pop shop rates. If it can not be welded- on the bike as is can I groove it with a thin carbide tip and lay a bead of permatex? The JB weld did not work but I dont know if they cleaned the surfaces thoroughly. It really is a nice bike.http://i772.photobucket.com/albums/y...g?t=1284139282

[DGXSER]

A couple options here. Understand your in over your head on removing and replacing the head, and cylinders/pistons. Honestly, it is not as hard as it sounds, but I do get that it may just be more than your wanting to step up and try.

You could also swap engines completely? Or get another engine to swap in.

Its a bit far for a weekend of wrenching for me, but it can be done in a weekend...a long one...to swap the cylinders and all out.

[DiverRay]

Clean the area at least THREE TIMES with MEK or some type of degreaser that does NOT leave a residue. I would use a heat gun or butane torch to heat the area between cleaning, allowing at least 30 minutes for everything to evaporate BEFORE trying to heat it! Once clean, use the STANDARD JB weld, and DO NOT START THE ENGINE for at least 24 hours. 48 hours would be better. That should take care of the leak.
The biggest problem is getting all the grease and oil out of the aluminum so the JB weld will work.

[mharrington]

OK- I know worse case scenario and permanent fix mandates top end removal. Im gonna try the intense prep and JB weld option but what do you guys think about a welder attempting to weld it up? DGXSER- I acquired this bike to avoid an engine parts swap with reassembly and reinstallation. The member that used to live 25 miles away in Grand Rapids MI has moved to Nevada. Keep in mind when I mention paying a member for their work Im not thinking $40 and a 24 pack of Bud. There is a mom and pop shop here in Holland that is competent on the old stuff but......I guess the deal with me is I can dissassemble things fine- its the getting it back together CORRECTLY that keeps me awake at night. An engine not timed correctly- ouch. This new to me 1100 is a joy though. Like going froma peppy 318 to a warmed and in the zone 440 Magnum (mopar guy here). Those little drips look awefull when they hit the exhaust. Im gonna run into town and get some MEK. What about the JB weld 2 part putty? It would be easy for me to pack it in tight and knead it in.

[ManagerMike]

If indeed you have a trailer, load it up and take it to a weld shop and ask the welder if he can repair it in situ. If yes, and for a good price, drop it off, if not take it back home and try the superclean and JB weld routine, because if the JB weld trick don't work, you'll have to grind it all off again so a welder can see the crack.
I do have confidence in the JB weld bit as a good temporary fix, as it is not a pressure leak, but it will evetually fail beacuse of the different thermal expansion rates of aluminum and epoxy.
Some gray RTV instead of epoxy may be a consideration also, it will remain flexible and less prone to thermal cracking, and easier to redo should it start leaking again down the road. Good luck!

[mharrington]

I lightly grooved the crack with a dremel carbide. Im gonna let it sit now till my next day off- tuesday. Hopefully all the oil will seep from the crack. Im gonna put it on the trailer and take it in to a local weld shop and have them take a look. If thats a no go Ill do the JB or permatex attempt. Im glad the weather has gotton alot colder here cuz I really want to ride this thing.

[dbeardslee]

If you're going to try an get aluminum welded, you're probably going to have to find someone that can heliarc weld it. Might be other ways, but that's the only one I know to weld aluminum, and the only guys I've ever seen do it were REALLY good welders. My $.02

[Cobia]

Beware!!!

If you find a shop that will weld it for you make sure you disconnect all your main electronic boxes such as the TCI, rectifier, etc. The welding curretn that will travel through the frame and engine will fry them in no time. You'll have bigger problems than a leaky head if you don't.

[motoman]

Best option.........change it out for the later 12-1300 Venture or V-max self tensioner!......Trust me, the stock one WILL slip back after years of the lock bolt putting index marks on the tensioner shaft. Just a fact of the inferior design and could cost you some bent valves or worse if left unattended.

[mharrington]

I plan on a Venture tensioner over the winter but right now I need to stop that nuisance oil leak. I was gonna ask about welding on an engine and the electronics. So disconnect the battery and the black (CDI?) box?

[motoman]

Problem is that the crack is contaminated with oil and more WILL be drawn to the crack with the heat from TIG or MIG welding it while on the bike. Will not work unless it is removed, taken apart and cleaned. Then housing needs to be bolted down tight to a small plate so it doesn't distort and end up with misalignment of the bolt holes. Just sound advice being a certified welder myself.

[79XS11F]

I have seen a few engines with this same issue. I am sure it happens when wrenchers fail to realize that the nuts on the underside of the head at the front and back take only about 1/2 as much torque as the nuts across the top. I think its like 14.5 pounds for the front and back underside nuts. It can also happen if that metal cam tunnel gasket is used on a head re & re job.
As I understand it these Japanese engines are not true aluminum. It's an aluminum based alloy that is VERY difficult to wield.
So, IMHO, unless your going to switch out the engine or the jugs and the pistons that match them, you are going to have to clean it up real good and try to plug it with jb wield or perhaps RTV sealant. The strength is gone and there not much you can do about that now. I would use contact cleaner and compressed air for the cleaning and pump RTV sealant into it . I think you will have some difficulty getting JB into it.
Rob

[mharrington]

Ok Im gonna use permatex black to fill it in and cover it up. If it does not work I will just deal with the smoke in the meantime. I have roughed the area up nicely with a stone on a dremel and been scrubbing it good with a clean rag and some MEK. The applicator of the permatex will work good to get in that tight space and hopefully deals with heat expansion better than JB weld (I was gonna use the JB putty). There already was alot of JB slopped around the area- I did see this before I bought the bike but I assumed it was a failed attempt to seal a leaky tensioner body gasket. Im gonna also assume the person who slopped on the JB did not do any real cleaning. I do have the crack and surrounding area surgery room clean. Any members in the MI area (within 100 miles of Grand Rapids) want to make some money over the winter replacing the jug? Mike Harrington

[mharrington]

I used the permatex black and its sealed the leak. Good temporary fix. Thanks to all who chimed in!

[LuckyEddie]

Welded Crack

Mike,

I can help you out. I've done this before. PM me and we will get together.