Electrical voodo

[rombat]

Finally found something, just not sure what it is. There was no power at red/white wire to starter solenoid. Traced good power on red/white to small black "relay?" under the seat. Power went in on red/white but did not come out. I ran a jump wire and the bike started. This "relay?" was hung in a rubber sleeve. It also has a black/yellow and a sky blue wire attached, no idea what they are for. Markings are 1 2 R
OMRON
13x2D8 or 9 can't tell
There is a four wire clip that plugs into it. Any ideas what it is called, what it does, and where to find one would be greatly welcomed.

[bikerphil]

That is the clutch cutoff relay and switch, prevents bike from cranking if clutch lever is not pulled in. Saw it on this wiring diagram, switch towards the bottom, relay towards the top of diagram.

http://server6.theimagehosting.com/i...062&fullsize=1

[bikerphil]

Looks like that relay is still available, but it's $55.

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Ya...202/parts.html

I'd bet a $5 automotive relay would work in it's place if wired up correctly.

[rombat]

Thanks bikerphil that is very helpful. I saved a copy of that wiring diagram. My xs1100 clymer manual does not show that part. I am thinking of just running a jump wire and bypassing the relay. Any thoughts on the wisdom of that short cut, other than the obvious starting while in gear issues. Still don't know if there is a connection to the fuel gauge gremlin but I can live with that.

[bikerphil]

If you bypass that safety feature, it'll be just like an XS11. As for your fuel guage, I think some XJ owners have experienced problems with the sending unit in the fuel tank, might want to do a ohm test.

[rombat]

Just thinking out loud here. Wondering if this all started when I used BPR6ES plugs instead of the non resistor BP6ES the manual calls for? Could the extra resistance be forcing electricity through a bad plug wire into the bike frame and cause these gremlins to pop up? If I was to replace the 30 year old stock plug wires what should I use? The bike started fine with the new plugs(before the trouble) but the throttle response seemed off.

[planedick]

Guage power

There is a small blue thingy inside the tach case that supplies power to the tank guage. Should be somwhere around 5 volts and can be checked at the connector at the rear of the tank that goes to the sending unit. Just unplug the connector and check with a voltmeter. Also check the resistance of the sending unit at the other side of that plug while unplugged.

[natemoen]

Just thinking out loud here. Wondering if this all started when I used BPR6ES plugs instead of the non resistor BP6ES the manual calls for? Could the extra resistance be forcing electricity through a bad plug wire into the bike frame and cause these gremlins to pop up? If I was to replace the 30 year old stock plug wires what should I use? The bike started fine with the new plugs(before the trouble) but the throttle response seemed off.

IF you are using resistor plugs and resistor caps then yes that would absolutely cause the spark to jump someplace else. You can use one or the other (or neither for that matter) but just not both resistor plugs and caps. Get rid of one of them and get back to us!

[rombat]

I believe the plug wires are stock(third owner), would that mean resistor caps or not? The owners manual calls for non resistor plugs but they seem to be hard to find. The local bike shop kid behind the counter said NKG does not make them, for what ever that is worth. If no NKG are available, what would be a good substitute, I have always had the best results with NKG in 1/2 a dozen jap bikes.

[natemoen]

The BP6ES by NGK are still made, they are not discontinued so that kid does not know what he is talking about. Go to NAPA or some other auto parts store and talk to them, if they dont have them they would be able to find you the equivalent to them.

Having the stock wires does not mean for sure that you have the stock plug caps cause they are removable. It should be labeled on the cap itself though. It should say "5K" on there somewhere.

[cywelchjr]

IF you are using resistor plugs and resistor caps then yes that would absolutely cause the spark to jump someplace else. You can use one or the other (or neither for that matter) but just not both resistor plugs and caps. Get rid of one of them and get back to us!

An extra 5k of resistance will NOT make the spark go anywhere else, there is noplace else for it to go, it can either go across the spark plug gap, and which point when it starts to jump across the resistance no longer matters. The only thing you might get is if the rest of the system is having trouble you might have hard starting. I ran mine for 6 months with both resister plugs and resister caps (and the caps were over double the correct resistance) and everything worked fine. However, the non-resister plugs are still made by NGK, I pick them up at the auto store each time I need them. That said, you can get non-resister caps and use the resistor plugs if you wish, or just use the resistor plugs with resistor caps at the same time with no problem. It just means it's take a little more voltage build up before the spark will jump the gap is all.

[natemoen]

An extra 5k of resistance will NOT make the spark go anywhere else, there is noplace else for it to go, it can either go across the spark plug gap, and which point when it starts to jump across the resistance no longer matters. The only thing you might get is if the rest of the system is having trouble you might have hard starting. I ran mine for 6 months with both resister plugs and resister caps (and the caps were over double the correct resistance) and everything worked fine. However, the non-resister plugs are still made by NGK, I pick them up at the auto store each time I need them. That said, you can get non-resister caps and use the resistor plugs if you wish, or just use the resistor plugs with resistor caps at the same time with no problem. It just means it's take a little more voltage build up before the spark will jump the gap is all.

In a perfect world (well maybe not quite perfect) this is true that there is no place else for the spark to go but across the gap. BUT if you have old wires and they are touching the valve cover (how many people have their wires touching the valve cover) it will jump the the valve cover. I have seen plenty of sparks that will even jump down the boot and spark to the spark plug base especially if there is something on the plug (water if its raining, oil, grease, anything other that dielectric grease) it can jump.

If the spark finds someplace that has less resistance than the combined resistance of the plug and the plug cap and the plug gap it will jump there instead of across the gap where its supposed to be.

[fredintoon]

- - - The owners manual calls for non resistor plugs but they seem to be hard to find. The local bike shop kid behind the counter said NKG does not make them - - -

Hi rombat,
Yeah, non-resistor plugs are hard to find although perhaps NAPA could bring them in for you. Or stay with the resistor plugs and switch to the no-resistor generic lawnmower plug wire caps from Canadian Tire.

[rombat]

Just ordered a set of 4 BP6ES from Club Plug, $11.80 including shipping. Not sure if it will help but for 12 bucks it's worth a try. By the looks of the weather forecast I won't be riding much for the next week anyway. I jumped the clutch starter relay. The bike starts and runs fine but I will wait for the non resistor plugs before putting any mileage on it. Fuel gauge operation is hit and miss.The plug wires do touch the valve cover,I ran it in the dark and could not see any sparks but who knows. New plug wires will be on my list of winter updates, it can't hurt. I have a xs750 rear drive and will be trying xschop's modification, always wanted a 6th gear.

[cywelchjr]

Just ordered a set of 4 BP6ES from Club Plug, $11.80 including shipping. Not sure if it will help but for 12 bucks it's worth a try. By the looks of the weather forecast I won't be riding much for the next week anyway. I jumped the clutch starter relay. The bike starts and runs fine but I will wait for the non resistor plugs before putting any mileage on it. Fuel gauge operation is hit and miss.The plug wires do touch the valve cover,I ran it in the dark and could not see any sparks but who knows. New plug wires will be on my list of winter updates, it can't hurt. I have a xs750 rear drive and will be trying xschop's modification, always wanted a 6th gear.

The only thing I CAN tell you is that the resistor plugs are not what's causing your problem. The bike will run fine with them, but that said, I make sure I run non-resistor plugs with my resistor caps just to be sure everything is correct.