final drive questions?!

[ross]

hey there folks.....been quite the warm summer up here.....and all over for that matter.....anywho, was looking to replace the rear prophylactic.....almost slipped out from under me the other day in a beautiful 5:00 am downpour...


after i got the tire off, i noticed that the actual drive gear to the wheel was very dry and so was the housing on the final drive...




i am wondering if this requires lubrication (it must!)....also, while i am this far, should i tear apart the final drive and clean out all the gunk....i have changed the final drive oil per spec, but never tore down and did a complete clean and re-lube.....don't feel like buying the "$50 dollar bearing".....can clean and repack no probs.....or so i think.....advice here would be good!!!....




hope everyone is having a great riding season......also, thanx in advance for any and all information on this!!.....ross

p.s. hey there t.c......THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH!!!!

[3Phase]

Hey, Ross! You really do not want to take apart the final drive but I'm guessing you're thinking about greasing the driveshaft/coupler splines, not a complete teardown?


That $50 left-hand rear wheel bearing can be repacked with high-temp bearing grease by gently prying out the rubber seal covering the bearing, pulling out the removable center bearing race, then using your finger to grease the needle bearings. Put the center race back in the bearing and re-seat the seal.


To grease the final drive input coupler and driveshaft splines: undo the four nuts holding the final drive to the swingarm and tap the final drive off the studs with a block of wood or a rubber mallet. Lightly paint all of the splines with the really spendy high-moly grease, then follow up with a dollop or three of high temp bearing grease to pack the coupler and swingarm cavity.


For the rear wheel to final drive coupler in your pictures: roughly the same thing. Paint the two hub splines lightly with high-moly grease, then put on a light coat of high-temp bearing grease. Lightly pack the space behind the final drive splines where the wheel hub will fit with high-temp grease.


Don't get crazy greasing the wheel/final drive hub. When you ride the bike if there is too much extra grease in there it will fling out all over the white plastic dust shield around the wheel hub, the left side of the rim, the back tire, the back/left side of your jacket/shirt and your helmet!

Have fun, man!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ross,

Yeah, that does look a bit DRY! However, if you've not seen any leaking from the FD, then I wouldn't bother taking it apart! Use some mild cleaner to remove the grime from the outer seal area, clean up the inner spline area, and then SLATHER lots of gear grease all around and inside it, and around the splines on the wheel hub, and then throw it all back together.

Here's what mine looked like after my recent rear tire change, from the rear tire change pictorial tip.

Nice and juicy/greasy!!





Good job on the fuseblock, now complete it by running the AUX fuse terminal wires thru the block, and to the AUX terminals, so you can still use the screws, but have a solid fuse protecting it!
T.C.

[b.walker5]

For the rear wheel to final drive coupler in your pictures: roughly the same thing. Paint the two hub splines lightly with high-moly grease, then put on a light coat of high-temp bearing grease.

Okay, not questioning your logic, but why would you mix Molybdenum disulfide (moly) grease with High-Temp bearing grease which is essentially the same stuff?, except one is organic and then other is synthetic. (and dont mix particularly well)

Actually, on second thought, maybe I am questiong your logic, but in a good way.

[3Phase]

Brian, the high-moly grease forms a metallic barrier on the faces of splines and gears but it doesn't flow well because it's mostly metal (up around 70% or 80% IIRC) in the form of molybdenum disulfide. The high-temp grease has a much lower concentration of moly but it will flow.

So, the initial painting (painting, not globs!) of moly fills any small voids and cracks in the metal surfaces and forms a thin metallic film that pretty much stays in place while the regular high-temp grease with some moly in it flows in to provided standard lubrication and transfer heat away from the contact surfaces.

[b.walker5]

Yeah, Okay. Makes sense. Your talking High Temp with Moly added, I was talking High Temp mineral with no Moly.

LGHP 2

SKF high performance, high temperature bearing grease

SKF high performance, high temperature bearing grease LGHP 2 is premium quality mineral oil based grease, using a modern Polyurea (di–urea) thickener. It is suitable for ball (and roller) bearings required to run extremely quiet, operating at a wide temperature range from –40 °C (–40 °F) up to 150 °C (302 °F), at medium to high speeds.

Couldnt see how the two would be compatible.

[3Phase]

Yeah, Okay. Makes sense. Your talking High Temp with Moly added, I was talking High Temp mineral with no Moly.

Brian, nice try at starting a grease thread!

Regular high-temp grease with a mineral-based or synthetic oil and no moly will work just fine with the Honda Moly-60 grease, it just has to be replaced more often. If you used regular grease without moly you'd have to pull the rear wheel, re-paint with moly and re-pack everything a couple of times before the rear tire wore out instead of doing it when you replace a tire. That's just way too much work for me!

Honda Moly-60 grease uses a conventional lithium-based carrier filled with mineral oil and so does the bulk high-temp grease I use: Sta-Lube SL3141 Moly-Graph Extreme Pressure Multi-Purpose Lithium Grease.

The Honda grease is relatively expensive, about $10.00 US for 3 oz., and is just used to paint a high-moly coating on the contact surfaces, not for its carrier or its oils. The Sta Lube grease has graphite and moly blended into it and both Honda and Sta-Lube use good quality mineral-based oils blended into the carrier. Neither grease is synthetic unless you mean that there are no naturally-occurring grease mines found anywhere on our planet outside of motorcycle dealerships!

In this application, lubricating the drive hub and the splines on both ends of the driveshaft, the only problem with mixing greases would be trying to use DuPont's Krytox GPL 216 moly grease without cleaning off any other greases or moly pastes down to bare metal.

Do not ever mix Krytox with any other type of grease. The stuff does not play well with others and it is way too expensive to waste it by trying to replace a bad mix and any screwed up parts.

[b.walker5]

..and you acuse me of trying to start a grease thread...

Good info to have. Thanks.

[3Phase]

..and you acuse me of trying to start a grease thread...

Yeah, well, I didn't want to give Ross a bum steer so looked up the MSDS for both types of grease that I use.

Neither one says 'synthetic' anywhere on it but you never know... hopefully, Ross has put the Rebel Devil back together and has been tearing up the countryside for a couple of days now instead of watching me natter on about grease!

[dbeardslee]

Most moly fortified grease only has 3% moly. Honda recommends 60% moly for drive spline lubrication (hence the label Honda Moly-60), and I figure that's a pretty good number to shoot for. Loctite also sells a 60% moly paste that's a little bit cheaper than the Honda variety - about $20 for eight ounces. Comes with a little brush attached to the lid for application.

[3Phase]

Thanks, Doug! Ross how are you doing?

I went shopping two years ago the first time I had to replace the back tire and I wasn't able to find the Locktite grease anywhere without waiting a day or two while they ordered and shipped it. Having a brush in the cap would be handy but I bought the small tube from the Honda shop because they actually had it in stock when I showed up, not just listed in the catalog. I still have almost the entire tube left.

Too much grease will just get forced out of the hub and splines anyway and be wasted. Grease sitting inside the swingarm or flung in little tiny drops all over the rear end of the bike doesn't do anything useful for anyone unless you happen to own a leather cleaning outlet.

[dbeardslee]

I wasn't able to find the Locktite grease anywhere without waiting a day or two

Not many places seem to carry it. I ordered it off the internet, but I didn't have anything apart at the time, so the wait wasn't a problem. I'm thinking this stuff would probably be good for speedometer cables too. One way to find out .

[b.walker5]

So, would graphite grease work okay on the splines? I have plenty of that and it's happy in high temp and pressure environments.

Also have red Timken Automotive Wheel Bearing Grease which says it's high temp as well.

[dbeardslee]

The thing about the moly is that it bonds with the metal, so it provides lubrication even after the grease component has dried out or spun out. I'm sure any good quality grease will work, but at the speed that shaft turns at, it will probably spin most of it out pretty quickly. You probably want to grease it more often than the 10k mile factory spec. I figure that's about how long a rear tire is going to last, so greasing it isn't much more work - if your grease will take you that far.

[3Phase]

Okay, it's a grease thread, I'll play!

I'm thinking this stuff would probably be good for speedometer cables too.

It works great on speedometer cables, the speedometer drive hub at the front wheel and the driven hub in the speedometer. I checked them last weekend when I changed the front tire and they're still greased and spin like they did after I rebuilt them almost two years ago.

So, would graphite grease work okay on the splines? I have plenty of that and it's happy in high temp and pressure environments.

Also have red Timken Automotive Wheel Bearing Grease which says it's high temp as well.

Unless the Timken red has moly in it then it will not work as well but you could use it on top of a layer of moly paste. Graphite will work but not as well as moly [see link below].

Imagine a small sponge (the lithium carrier) filled with oil, moly and graphite that's sitting on a steel table. Smash the sponge with a hammer or put a heavy steel plate on top and drag the plate over the sponge.

The oil will be squeezed out and sheared away by the hammer or the sliding plate and only the moly and graphite will keep the hammer or the sliding plate from touching the table.

Here's a link to a manufacturer's PDF, TIMCAL sales lit., that shows their moly/graphite test results:-

Graphite in Lubrication Fundamental Parameters and Synergism with MoS2