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Check you middle and final drive.

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  • #1

    Check you middle and final drive.


    I was riding home from work in 5th gear about 40 mph gave her a little throttle, and there was a grinding noise for about 2 seconds. I grabbed the clutch most rikki tik. There was no lock up. Whew. I coasted to a nearby tavern. I seemed as if my transmission was shifting gears but no go. So I think I ran my middle drive out of 80/90 wt.

    When I got home (after the tow, I got that road side assistance, well worth the 10 more dollars a year BTY) I felt the drive line through the rubber boot and I could turn the rear wheel but the drive shave wasn't moving.

    At least I hope that is all that happened.

    What do you think?.... Any middle drive's out there in good shape?
    Crap.
    If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself..
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Lub

    Was all the lub gone from ether drive case? How hard do you ride? miles on bike? Check your drain hose from case and if water got in, they are tough but can be killed, especialy if water gets in or all lub gets out.
    1979 XS1100 Special (Mad Max, OEM) Current
    1980 XS1100 Special
    1990 V Max
    1982 KZ750 LTD Twin
    1986 700 FZR Yamaha Fazer (faster then expected)
    1979 XS750 Special (my 1st Special)
    1974 CB750-Four



    Past/pres Car's
    1961 Catalina 389/1970 Torino GT 351/1967GTO 12to1 comp./ Roller cam/ T-10/ 456 gear/Tri-power/1967 GTO 400, 1969 Camaro, 1968 Z28, 2001 BMW M Roadster 0 to 60 in 4.5 sec. Jaguar XK8

    Comment

    • #3
      I have both middle and final drive in good condition available.

      If the rear wheel will turn (on centerstand I assume) and the drive shaft is not turning, then the issue is in the final drive.

      If the bike is in neutral, then the countershaft is still connected to the middle drive by the end or middle driven gear. The middle drive is a direct gear couples path to the drive shaft as long as the bolts are in at the u-joint. The drive shaft is direct connected to the wheel via the final drive.

      I'd pull the final drive off and check it out first.
      Life is what happens while your planning everything else!

      When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt.

      81 XS1100 Special - Humpty Dumpty
      80 XS1100 Special - Project Resurrection


      Previously owned
      93 GSX600F
      80 XS1100 Special - Ruby
      81 XS1100 Special
      81 CB750 C
      80 CB750 C
      78 XS750

      Comment

      • #4
        I know I have seen a template on here to make a little dipstick to check the level but cant find it. How high up is it supposed to be in the middle drive?
        Nathan
        KD9ARL

        μολὼν λαβέ

        1978 XS1100E
        K&N Filter
        #45 pilot Jet, #137.5 Main Jet
        OEM Exhaust
        ATK Fork Brace
        LED Dash lights
        Ammeter, Oil Pressure, Oil Temp, and Volt Meters
        Green Monster Coils
        SS Brake Lines
        Vision 550 Auto Tensioner

        In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing.

        Theodore Roosevelt

        Comment

        • #5
          DGXSER,
          That is going to be the first thing I do tomorrow.

          One question though? I had had it in the center stand with the motor running and can shift gears up and down and still hit neutral. Of course, I ain't sticking my hand down there..

          And about the water getting in to drives, I'll be looking for any evidence. (If you ride year around up here you are going to get wet)
          I'll keep posting as I go along.

          One other thing, It is easy to get sloppy with the maintenance. This is my second XS. They are reliable and you get cozy with that fact.
          If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself..

          Comment

          • #6
            Here's your dipstick, Nate:

            http://www.ringler.us/xs1100/xs11_dipstick.pdf

            Patrick
            The glorious rays of the rising sun exist only to create shadows in which doom may hide.

            XS11F (Incubus, daily rider)
            1969 Yamaha DT1B
            Five other bikes whose names do not begin with "Y"

            Comment

            • #7
              Here is the tech tip on the dipstick

              If the rear wheel is still turning while on the centerstand, and running through the gears, then stopping when in neutral. Maybe you just need to check oil levels.
              Last edited by DGXSER; 08-09-2010, 09:57 PM.
              Life is what happens while your planning everything else!

              When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt.

              81 XS1100 Special - Humpty Dumpty
              80 XS1100 Special - Project Resurrection


              Previously owned
              93 GSX600F
              80 XS1100 Special - Ruby
              81 XS1100 Special
              81 CB750 C
              80 CB750 C
              78 XS750

              Comment

              • #8
                Water

                Originally posted by saddle up View Post
                DGXSER,
                That is going to be the first thing I do tomorrow.

                One question though? I had had it in the center stand with the motor running and can shift gears up and down and still hit neutral. Of course, I ain't sticking my hand down there..

                And about the water getting in to drives, I'll be looking for any evidence. (If you ride year around up here you are going to get wet)
                I'll keep posting as I go along.

                One other thing, It is easy to get sloppy with the maintenance. This is my second XS. They are reliable and you get cozy with that fact.
                1st, get up with DiverRay, he has had the water in the drive train prob. due to wet riding and can help you on that. Next, just IMHO, but the reg. maint. time and $ will save you big time and $ in the future, takes 5 min. to check all fluids, takes you lots of time and $ to fix if you don't
                1979 XS1100 Special (Mad Max, OEM) Current
                1980 XS1100 Special
                1990 V Max
                1982 KZ750 LTD Twin
                1986 700 FZR Yamaha Fazer (faster then expected)
                1979 XS750 Special (my 1st Special)
                1974 CB750-Four



                Past/pres Car's
                1961 Catalina 389/1970 Torino GT 351/1967GTO 12to1 comp./ Roller cam/ T-10/ 456 gear/Tri-power/1967 GTO 400, 1969 Camaro, 1968 Z28, 2001 BMW M Roadster 0 to 60 in 4.5 sec. Jaguar XK8

                Comment

                • #9
                  Up date. I checked the gear oil in rear end it was full and clean. I did all the things that you have to do, i.e. wheel, brake.. removed the rear drive.

                  I'm at the point now of separating the middle drive from the drive shaft. What a pita. I have the transmission in first gear. That puts up resistance, but not enough to loosen the 12mm bolts.

                  So, It appears that I should have loosened the drive shaft bolts with the bike on the kick stand, first be fore anything.... It don't say that in the book(s) Clymers and Haynes.. And I thought about doing that, believe it or not.

                  I did scour the search before I started this.. I spent about 4 or 5 hours reading, but it is easy getting sidetracked when you read about everyone else's problem's along the way..

                  So any ideas out there? I don't want to put any shock on the tranny, by beating on a wrench with a hammer....
                  If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself..

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Of course I just found this...

                    Nope, can't get that puppy out without removing the rear wheel and the final drive. But what you can do is pull back the boot at the middle drive and pull the four bolts connecting the u-joint to the middle drive. This will allow the driveshaft to spin so you can move the bike...

                    This will also quickly indicate if it is the engine/trans that's seized or if it's the final drive.

                    '78E original owner

                    Only problem is my rear wheel turns, no matter what gear, etc...
                    If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself..

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      I don't want to put any shock on the tranny, by beating on a wrench with a hammer....
                      BEAT ON THE WRENCH!! It's the ONLY way you can break the bolts loose. It will NOT put much shock on the tranny. I would put the bike in second or third gear, though. It will help keep the crank from moving.
                      Also, use a 6 point 12mm BOX END to loosen the bolts. A 12 point may strip the head on the bolt, and the open end WILL strip the head.
                      As for wet riding, make sure the vent tube from the middle drive is routed up under the fuel tank. That is the factory set up, and if it's router down under the bike, it WILL suck water into the middle drive!DAMHIKIJK
                      Ray Matteis
                      KE6NHG
                      XS1100 E '78 (winter project)
                      XS1100 SF Bob Jones worked on it!

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Up date....

                        Well I got the drive shaft loosened from the middle drive.. I guess I have been burning both sites up with my problem(s). Removed the swing arm. Grease galore on everything so far.. Everything appears to be good so far. With the swing arm off, I have put the tranny in gear, rock solid.. So far nothing make's since....

                        I'll post later, If I stay on here longer, I'll never get anything else done AND I'll have to make a trip to get more beer.. lol
                        If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself..

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Well,,

                          Before, I go any further, I checked the gear oil in the middle drive, it looks good, smells normal and was just a 1\16 or so below the stick, so I am probably 2-4 oz's shy.

                          I started the motor up no problem, went thru the gears, no problem, tried to stop the flange outside the middle drive with and with out the motor on.. couldn't stop the flange from turning.

                          On the rear drive, everything appear's to be the norm.. All teeth on the end of the drive shaft and the teeth outside of the rear drive appear to be intact, i.e., no chips, and everything smooth to touch. There is a small amount of debris on the inside of the rear drive,some tiny shavings with some dust...maybe a pinch full..

                          I'm thinking that maybe the teeth in the rear drive might have just plain worn out..

                          I was looking at the manuals and am scratching my head right now, as you know not much in there... I was going to take the middle drive out. The books say there are seven hex bolts attaching the drive to the block.. I can see only six.. so one must be buried in my 80 SG, or some of the posts that stated you don't have to remove the engine to take off the Middle drive???

                          Any ideas on this??
                          If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself..

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Aha

                            Sounds like a seized bearing in the final....
                            You can't stay young forever, but you can be immature for the rest of your life...

                            '78E "Pathfinder" Show bike...
                            Lovingly restored by Dave Delzell
                            Drilled airbox
                            Tkat fork brace
                            Hardly mufflers
                            late model carbs
                            Newer style fuses
                            Oil pressure guage
                            Custom security system
                            Stainless braid brake lines

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              So Planedick,

                              Are you saying that I got to break that final drive apart, or just get another final drive without farting around for the next day or so??

                              What you said make since.. when I turn the back wheel, with or without the tranny in gear, I can hear some noise inside the rear drive,,,, so I guess that I answered my own question.. I'll take it apart.. Something has to show somewhere...
                              If I knew I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself..

                              Comment

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