conformation on dead coils please.

[XS1100 Newbie]

So this morning i fired the bike up for a ride to town. As allways i choked it, but this morning i didn't want to wait very long, so i threw my helmet on, and put the choke to the middle level, and started to go. As expected, it died on me. I tried to start it, but it wouldn't fire. After a few tries, i figured i had flooded it. I waited 20 minutes, with the battery charger on it, and then tried again. Nothing. I pulled number 1 plug and checked for spark. There was no spark. I went with the steps and figures in the manual on checking the TCI voltage first. All was fine. Then i checked the Primary circuit on the coils at the TCI, i only have a 2K, 200K, scale on my meter, so i used the 2K. The ohs read out at .015 on both coils. I then check them at the coils, They both read out at .002. I checked voltage at the coils, it read, 15.8 volts at the coils. Secondary oms were at .029 on 1&4, and .024 on 2&3, on the 2K scale. I then switched out my TCI to double check, and nothing new happened, so i hooked the original back up. I did find the ground at the TCI plug to be reading .35 on the 2K scale, so cleaning the ground is in order. Near as i can tell, both coils went tits up this morning. If you guys know more test, let me know. Give me your opinion on dead coils please.

[Rickrod3]

not sure what the ohm reading on the primary side should be but; I got 25 ohms on my secondary side. Since your meter is set on kohms it is close to what you got.

why don't you pull the plug lay it on the engine with plug wire attached and see if you have spark.

[tinman905]

The chances both coils go at the same time like that are slim to none. Have a look at your ballast resister it may have died or just a loose or dirty connector there.
Check your tip over switch also but that rarely goes bad. Make sure to check all your fuses too.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Newbie,

First, I hope you unplugged the primary plug wires from the coils before trying to test them? If I'm calculating it right, 1.5 ohms divided by 1000 would be
.0015 ! You say you then checked them directly at the coils and got 0.002 which is closer to the .0015 value.

That voltage at the coils sounds too high!? Also, when measured without the bike running, you're measuring the full power sent by the Tci for startup, but it's routed THRU the ballast resistor during running. So...like tinman, I, too, think a look at the BR is in order, they crack can prevent power to the coils. HOWEVER, that's after it gets running, but should not be a factor for just starting.

The secondary readings don't make sense? They should be 15k WITHOUT the plug caps on, but up to 25K or more depending on if caps are 5 or 8 k each! On a 2k scale I would think it would read 10 or more...not 0.029 or such?

Also, what voltage are you seeing at the battery during the cranking? They can sometimes have the power to crank, but still run near or below the 10.5 volts!?

Good Luck hunting! T.C.

[Ken Talbot]

Any time somebody experiences a sudden loss of spark, I always have to ask about pick-up coil wires. Coils don't tend to die suddenly, then come back to life and die again. Pick-up coil wires do.

There are other possibilities that could kill a whole system at once, but the odds are pretty long on those scenarios.

[tw1980]

Check your pick up wires with your ohm meter.If they,re ok you might have a bad tip over switch or tci.If your tci is intermittent send it to me and I'll try to fix it.

TERRY

[XS1100 Newbie]

I did check spark with the plug grounded. The ballast resistor has full voltage though it. I have not checked the voltage at the battery while cranking though, so that will be in the morning. I guess i will take another look at my pickup coils. Having repaired one, it could have went bad again, but when it was bad it didn't keep it from running. Again the scale i am using is 2K, not 2M scale.

[XS1100 Newbie]

Went out this morning and checked the pickup coils again. Found a dead one. Repaired the wire, and it runs. When the other one went bad, the bike still run, don't know why this one was different. Oh well, it lives again. Thanks for the help guys. Still going to change the coils when i can afford it.

[DGXSER]

Often the bike will run with a bad pickup coil wire because the ends are still making contact inside the insulation. Its just when the advance kicks in and stretches the wires the ends get pulled away form each other, maybe enough to break the flow, maybe not quite enough and it just intermitently breaks the flow.

In this second case, it seems it made a more complete break of all the wire strands and perhaps more separation. Therefore, the break was more "perminant".

[Rickrod3]

Has anyone done this?

I've been thinking of removing the harness and the pick up coils and replacing the wire from the coil to the connector.
Winter project since mine seems fine at the moment.
What gauge wire and type would you use for something like this?

Rick

[natemoen]

I've been thinking of removing the harness and the pick up coils and replacing the wire from the coil to the connector.
Winter project since mine seems fine at the moment.
What gauge wire and type would you use for something like this?

Rick

It has to be a very soft and flexible wire. The copper strands inside the pickup coil wires are very very thin. Electrical meter test leads have a somewhat similar wire but its still much stiffer but its the best substitute. Also the wires from the coils themselves only reach about 5 inches or so outside the cover on that side and then they are connected to a normal automotive wire that runs under the motor.

[XS1100 Newbie]

Well @#$t, my repair failed on the road this time. I evidently crimped the bottom holder onto the loom to close, and the wire broke again ahead of the solder. I redone it again, and pulled some extra wire loom in, and angled the holder different so the old wire itself is doing the bending. We have got to figure out a way to repair these things that is clean, and it lasts.

[cywelchjr]

I'm not sure what type of commercial wire would be best for this. It has to stand up to a LOT of flexing, which means very thin strands which means weak as relates to being pulled on, but the other problem is you WILL have a likely break point at the solder joint, as you will have a small section that can't move because of the solder followed by a section almost guaranteed to be weak from the heat of the soldering next to it, which means that is the likely break point. I would think you would need to combine the fixing with some shrink tubing going out a bit from the solder joint to support past that point.

[XS1100 Newbie]

I did put longer shrink tube on this time as well. I'll keep my fingers crossed till i find an answer.

[crazy steve]

I'm not sure what type of commercial wire would be best for this. It has to stand up to a LOT of flexing, which means very thin strands which means weak as relates to being pulled on, but the other problem is you WILL have a likely break point at the solder joint, as you will have a small section that can't move because of the solder followed by a section almost guaranteed to be weak from the heat of the soldering next to it, which means that is the likely break point. I would think you would need to combine the fixing with some shrink tubing going out a bit from the solder joint to support past that point.

For commercially available wire, a set of 'better' quality meter leads would work (think fluke, not radio shack) but probably won't be cheap. There's also a type of wire called 'superflex' with ultra-fine wire and a very flexible covering but that's strictly special order, not cheap, and you may have to buy a minimum quantity ($$). Probably the easiest wire to find would be from a power tool cord; find one with a rubber covering (not vinyl) and rubber insulation on the wires and pull the individual wires out of it. Try a small-tool repair place for that (you might even get a freebee if the plug is bad or has an internal break). One more choice; if you have an electrical supply house around, see if they have 'SO' cord in 16 or 18 gauge. Again, make sure it has rubber coatings, not vinyl.

DON'T put a solder joint anywhere it will see movement, as it WILL break as Cy said. The heat needed for a good joint will make the copper brittle. I never solder anything any more on a vehicle unless that's my only choice...