Clutch questions

[al_ngl]

My clutch is very slow to engage, and probably needs some things replaced I imagine, but I have no idea what all should be replaced or where to buy everything. I don’t notice the clutch much when shifting gears, but it is definitely slow starting from stationary. I’ve already adjusted the cable accordingly to get the most out of it and I figure I just need to crack down and fix it, so what do I do? I think the springs are fine, as the clutch lever is the stiffest of any bike I’ve ridden (not saying a whole lot though), and I don’t want to go overboard on price, so I was thinking replacing just the friction plates would be sufficient, and since I would have to drain the oil anyway (guessing), I could run seafoam before doing so to help clean it up before disassembly. Any of your suggestions, questions, and concerns would be greatly appreciated.

[CatatonicBug]

The frictions and the springs are about all that ever MIGHT need replacing. What kind of oil are you running? Synthetics are said to cause slippage. Did you adjust both ends of the clutch cable? You have to adjust the throwout plate where the cable connects to the clutch. THEN you adjust the handlebar end.

[cruiser]

Also critical to lubricate the clutch cable. Dragging cable equals hard to pull, stiff and slow engagement.

[al_ngl]

I did not adjust both ends of the cable. I will do that. I run Valvoline conventional oil, but maybe I should run motorcycle oil for the friction modifiers? For reference, I let out the clutch almost all of the way before it grabs, and that isn’t a strong grab either.

[CatatonicBug]

I did not adjust both ends of the cable. I will do that. I run Valvoline conventional oil, but maybe I should run motorcycle oil for the friction modifiers? For reference, I let out the clutch almost all of the way before it grabs, and that isn’t a strong grab either.

It's the friction modifiers you want to avoid! The clutch should grab rather quickly after you start to let off the lever. Sounds like an adjustment at the clutch end might be enough to fix your problem.

[al_ngl]

Why would I want to avoid friction modifiers? They specifically put them in motorcycle oils and not in car oils. I’m confused. Are the clutches pretty robust? My XS has 8600 miles and I figured that was about time to replace the clutch.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Slip

I know it sounds like crap, but "car" oil since the mid 80's will cause your clutch to act like yours is. Over time it can start slipping under load in all the gears as well, has happend to me and a friend of mine, we didn't buy the two oils were that diff, they are, trust me. I would say lube cable, adj at clutch then on handle bar pull, change oil and filter to bike oil and get all out that you can. Ride for a while around town to shift often to flush out old oil and work in new. Leave in 1st gear at lights whith clutch pulled in for the first day you ride, that will help flush out old oil from clutch. If clucth improves I would change the oil and filter again after 500 to 600 miles, if it still slips your are to late and springs and plates are your answer.

[CatatonicBug]

Why would I want to avoid friction modifiers? They specifically put them in motorcycle oils and not in car oils. I’m confused. Are the clutches pretty robust? My XS has 8600 miles and I figured that was about time to replace the clutch.

8600 miles is just barely broken in! The clutch should last MANY more tens of thousands of miles without replacement. Springs maybe, but the frictions and the steels should last a good long time.

As for the friction modifiers, those are for more modern engines. They tend to cause slippage with these older wet clutches. Car oils work FINE in these bikes, as long as you avoid the oil with this on the back:



Stick with oils that look like this:



There is some debate about synthetic oils causing slippage, as some folks use it with no issues, but since there have been many complaints about it, I suggest avoiding synthetic engine oils. The particles are smaller, and tend to leak a little easier too.

[DGXSER]

Not to start the age old debate....again....but you will find just as many if not more people state they have run conventional "auto" oil in these bikes for years if not decades with absolutely no il-effects. And then there are some who claim it is the root of clutch problems and froths up to ruin bearings and all sorts of mean nasty ugly stuff. My best guess/recommendation, neither or both are correct. So take your own guess, in no case do I believe ou will do any permanent harm to the engine, tranny, or clutch with either.

As to your issues, You want to try the cheap fixes first? Well here you go.

1. adjust the clutch end of the cable first, and then the bar end as described. There is a tech tip on how to do it properly. Then try the bike out. Cost = Free.

1.5 (while your adjusting) take the cable loose and lube it up good. Do not use WD-40, it forms a goo that makes it even stickier. Cost = $10? for cable lube.

2. If your not planning to change the oil, leave the bike on the side stand, and remove the clutch cover. On the side stand, the oil all sloshes over to the shifter side and will not run out. Now either get out the calpers you own, or run to the local Harbor Freight and pick up a cheap set. Next, remove the star plate carefully turn each bolt a little at a time when loosening or tightening the star plate so it moves relatively evenly. Measure your springs. Chances are, if they are the stock ones you will need new ones. I ordered a set of heavy duty replacements from my local shop for $14. Your milage is VERY low and the chances of your friction plates or steels being out of spec are slim to none. Cost = $20 for calipers + $14 for springs - $34.

Total = about $44

An effectively working clutch...Priceless. Or a new rear tire in the not to distant future!!

[al_ngl]

All right, sounds good. I’m glad that I should only have to replace the springs if that. I was fearing that this would be expensive, as I also need fork seals, brake rotors spun, and the carbs synched eventually. Is there anything I need to worry about when taking out the springs, or is it pretty simple? Also, what is the proper measurement of the springs?

[cywelchjr]

Umm, the rotors can't be spun. They are hard stainless and can't be resurfaced like softer rotors. As I understand it's said there is a method that can resurface them, but it requires special equipment and is not recommended as there is no spec for resurfacing.

[CatatonicBug]

All right, sounds good. I’m glad that I should only have to replace the springs if that. I was fearing that this would be expensive, as I also need fork seals, brake rotors spun, and the carbs synched eventually. Is there anything I need to worry about when taking out the springs, or is it pretty simple? Also, what is the proper measurement of the springs?

Do you have a manual yet? The specs on the springs are in there, IIRC. You can get a manual from the link in my signature. The only thing to really be careful with is the star plate that holds the springs in. Be sure to turn each bolt only a couple turns at a time, to make sure you pull the plate out straight. While you're in there, check on the oil pump idle gear behind the clutch basket (at about 5 o'clock when looking at the basket). It tends to lose a snap-ring, and pop off the end of the shioft fork shaft, potentially causing some problems.

As far as the rotors though, you won't easily be able to find a place that will be able to turn them. They are not like automotive rotors, and are MUCH harder, requiring special tooling. The thickness is also such that trimming them very much will drop them below the minimum. Unless they are warped, you probably don't have to do anything to them anyway.

[DGXSER]

All right, sounds good. I’m glad that I should only have to replace the springs if that. I was fearing that this would be expensive, as I also need fork seals, brake rotors spun, and the carbs synched eventually. Is there anything I need to worry about when taking out the springs, or is it pretty simple? Also, what is the proper measurement of the springs?

I forget the spec on the springs...if you download the manual from Catatonic Bugs website, it will tell you the spec on the springs. It will also tell you the way to get to them. It is pretty simple. In fact, if you read the tech tip on the dremmel repair of 1st and 2nd gear, it will guide you through the steps. Just ignore the stuff that does not apply. Really, you do not HAVE to remove the clutch cable, I've let the cover stay attached and set it aside on a small stool or something still atached to the cable. So lean the bike on the side stand, pull the bolts holding the side cover on, and then pull the six bolts holding the star plate off slowly...one or two turns per bolt at a time so it is removed evenly.

As stated no one will turn the rotors, they have to be ground down. Not a cheap or easily accomplished process.

[XS1100_OEM4ME]

Rotor's

here is a tip from TA on rotors, I am going to check it out on my bike soon.

"I take it you are talking about the front rotors but it might not be the rotors at all. Check the runout with a dial indicator to make sure but also try this.

Some specials will slightly bend the mounting bolt through the caliper with use and some dont. Before you spend a bunch of $ take the calipers off and check the bolt for straightness. You will notice it when you are undoing the bolt as the caliper will wobble slightly back and forth with the bend as you are unscrewing the through bolt. If the bolt is bent it will be only the threaded portion and will be just slightly off. If the bolt is bent you will hardly ever get it back into perfect alignment and it can cause a host of symptoms, one of which is pulseing.

Have had this happen to me more than once so every time I remove a caliper I change the bolt. They are easily found at a hardware store. Worth checking before you spend a bunch of money on other things".

[al_ngl]

Yes I do have a full Yamaha factory service manual that came with the bike, wanted to see if anyone knew the spec off hand before digging up the book. The book says springs must be 41.8mm or 1.646in minimum for future reference.

For the rotors, they aren’t warped and aren’t causing pulsing, but the rotors have these grooves in them that may be from some debris getting between the rotor and the pads, I figured a completely flat braking surface would be best, but that might just be me being picky.