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Best way to check if a regulator/rectifier is going bad?

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  • #1

    Best way to check if a regulator/rectifier is going bad?

    Another entry in the ongoing saga of my XS1100 and its schizophrenic charging system.....

    So, I've been having issues with this for a while. Since I brought the bike home, actually. Basically, the tach and the charging system... work when they want to. Sometimes it's on and off the whole ride, sometimes it just acts up for the first few miles then goes away completely.

    I've eliminated bad connections- I had a few of these, and took care of them. The battery is good as well. Next in line- the regulator/rectifier going bad.

    Looking through previous posts, this may be the issue. My question- what's the best way to test this? What to measure, what the readings would be, and what these readings would mean.

    I've gotten a LOT of advice on this already, and I thank you in advance for any more that I get. It'd just be nice to get rid of this headache.
    Currently XS-less.
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Hey Lucien,

    A search for some posts by Scott/3phase with the terms reg green or brown wire should reveal his quick/down and dirty test..I just can't remember exactly, but it involved jumping one of them directly to ground and seeing what the voltage is while running. If it doesn't go up to 14.5 or close...if it stays at 12.0 or less, then IIRC it indicates the ALT/field coils being bad. If it does increase in voltage, then the Reg/Rect is bad! But find his post to verify the wire and such....my CRS is acting up lately!!
    T. C. Gresham
    81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
    79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
    History shows again and again,
    How nature points out the folly of men!

    Comment

    • #3
      A quick down and dirty test is to put your voltage meter across the battery, and rev the engine up a couple times. Voltage should stay between about 13V and 15V.

      Hope that helps...
      '80 SG with motor from a '82 XJ

      Comment

      • #4
        None of those are definitive as if the rectifier section goes you can do the wires thing and the voltage will still not rise. You still need to do the test in the shop manual (the link for which can be gotten from any of cbugs posts) as well, as mine was the rectifier that went out, not the regulator portion.
        Cy

        1980 XS1100G (Brutus) w/81H Engine
        Duplicolor Mirage Paint Job (Purple/Green)
        Vetter Windjammer IV
        Vetter hard bags & Trunk
        OEM Luggage Rack
        Jardine Spaghetti 4-2 exhaust system
        Spade Fuse Box
        Turn Signal Auto Cancel Mod
        750 FD Mod
        TC Spin on Oil Filter Adapter (temp removed)
        XJ1100 Front Footpegs
        XJ1100 Shocks

        I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.

        Comment

        • #5
          reg

          Last year I spent half the summer chasing problems like yours. Cleaned all connections, removed a couple bad plug/receptacles, tested, had varying test results, a bit different each time. Finally said SCREW THIS, and ordered a new type regulator from Geezer, he also sent new plugs/receps. A bit pricey, but now everything works very nicely, and I have much better charging at lower RPMs. Geezer is free with info, and makes an xscellent unit. Much better than chasing gremlins all over the system.
          put something smooooth betwen your legs, XS eleven
          79 F (Blueballs)
          79 SF (Redbutt)
          81 LH (organ donor)
          79 XS 650S (gone to MC heaven)
          76 CB 750 (gone to MC heaven)
          rover has spoken

          Comment

          • #6
            I had the opposite problem on my 79. I developed my reg/rec for the XS11 on the 80 Mongrel that I sold a couple years go. The 79 had a good reg/rec but I believe in using my products so after I got it running I installed a new reg/rec.

            Anyway it was over charging from a voltage drop through the electrical system to the brown wire that feeds power to the regulator and is also the voltage sensing point. I ended up cleaning the ignition switch and replacing both the harness plug and the plug on the switch. Then both plugs to the reg/rec and the power plug from the solenoid to the harness. After all that my electrical problems went away. I had previously cleaned and packed all the other connections in the harness or I would have done them at the same time.

            The PO had this bike for 6 years and never parked it under cover. I had to replace or rebuild all the switches including the brake light and handlebar kill switch...

            Geezer
            Hi my name is Tony and I'm a bikeoholic.

            The old gray biker ain't what he used to be.

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by Lucien Harpress View Post
              the tach and the charging system... work when they want to. Sometimes it's on and off the whole ride, sometimes it just acts up for the first few miles then goes away completely.
              Sounds to me like you have a break in a wire under the insulation which gives an intermittent connection. Like this case. Go through each wire and measure the resistance whilst you move the wire around.
              Brian
              XS1100 LG "Mr T", SG "ICBM" & FJ1200
              Check out the XS Part Number Finder

              Be not stingy in what costs nothing as courtesy, counsel and countenance.

              Comment

              • #8
                Okay, a bit more information....

                A few days ago I checked the voltage across the battery terminals with the bike running (revved up to about 3K RPM). Headlight took a while to come on, tach was jumping like crazy all over the place (on/off/on/off)- and voltage across the terminals was a steady, constant 12/12.5 (I had just charged the battery prior to testing). So, pretty much, no charging no matter WHAT the tach and/or light is doing.

                I printed out the relevant pages in the manual for checking both the stator/field coil and regulator/rectifier. I did the tests for the stator and field coil. I'll get to the regulator/rectifier test in a day or two. Here's what I got.

                (Note- I did these resistance tests with the stator/field coil unplugged)

                Green wire to brown wire- Manual says the reading should be around 3.5 ohms. I got 2.

                White wires- Manual says I should have around 0.4 ohms. I got- off the scale on the 0 end. I thought at one point I got around .4 or .5, but I rechecked all of them and got the "off-the-scale" reading again.

                Should I go ahead and check the regulator/rectifier as well?
                Currently XS-less.

                Comment

                • #9
                  This was with the stuff unplugged right? If by off the scale you mean the same as open, then it would be a problem. Are you using a digital or analog meter? These measurements really need digital unless your really skilled with the analog ones (had to learn how to calibrate and read the analog ones in the Army), but the white wires should be in the range down there. If you mean pretty much 0 on the white wires then you probably have a bad stator, in which case you need to get another one.

                  I would still do all the checks for the regulator and such that are done with it unplugged, but if everything is that out of spec on the stator and such, you need to deal with that first. It could be shorted wires in the white wires, which can be fixed without replacing the stator in some cases.

                  Oh, if using an analog meter make sure it's properly calibrated before believing what it says, you should NEVER be off the scale, at worst it should be 0 at the lowest, never lower.
                  Cy

                  1980 XS1100G (Brutus) w/81H Engine
                  Duplicolor Mirage Paint Job (Purple/Green)
                  Vetter Windjammer IV
                  Vetter hard bags & Trunk
                  OEM Luggage Rack
                  Jardine Spaghetti 4-2 exhaust system
                  Spade Fuse Box
                  Turn Signal Auto Cancel Mod
                  750 FD Mod
                  TC Spin on Oil Filter Adapter (temp removed)
                  XJ1100 Front Footpegs
                  XJ1100 Shocks

                  I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    It's probably a mistake on my part- seems I forgot to "zero" the meter out beforehand.... I wondered what that dial did.... D'OH!

                    (And yes, I'm using an analog meter.)
                    Currently XS-less.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Hey Lucien

                      I was lurking on the other side and came across this from Ivan... looks like some good info to have.

                      Lucien Harpress. Hes having trouble with his charging system, and thinking the regulator.

                      Since I can't reply to him, could someone let him know that some of the old CB750s used the same regulators and they tend to be cheaper on ebay, if he decides that's it.

                      I have a buddy with an 80 CB750 and the regulator is identical, even the plugs are the same. Even the sticker on the side has the "Shindien" (SP?) label.
                      1980 SG. (Sold - waiting on replacement)
                      2000 XJR1300. The Real modern XS11. Others are just pretenders.

                      Woman (well, my wife anyway) are always on Transmit and never Receive.

                      "A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be" Albert Einstien.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Electronically they operate the same but the Honda unit does not have the same plugs, or wire color codes. Also the Honda unit is way weaker than the unit Yamaha used on the XS11. Adapting a Honda unit to work on one of our bikes isn't for the inexperience or faint of heart...

                        So I'd say we are better off without this info (opinion) from the dark side...

                        Geezer
                        Hi my name is Tony and I'm a bikeoholic.

                        The old gray biker ain't what he used to be.

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Yeah, maybe.... but you gotta admit, they look pretty similair, and I think the reference was to some cb's, not all of them.

                          http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1980-...Q5fAccessories

                          http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YAMAH...Q5fAccessories

                          Please dont shoot the messenger. I have no particular love for the dark side and only venture over there occassionaly out of curiosty. I just seen that snippet and figured it might be useful for Lucien, and given that the parts look pretty close it'd probably be worth digging deeper to see if they are actually compatible.
                          1980 SG. (Sold - waiting on replacement)
                          2000 XJR1300. The Real modern XS11. Others are just pretenders.

                          Woman (well, my wife anyway) are always on Transmit and never Receive.

                          "A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be" Albert Einstien.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            If you look around you can find a good one on ebay for cheap. It took a while but I got mine for $15 and it's been working great for 1.5 years now. Gotta keep watching though, cause the good ones price wise are usually gone really fast.
                            Cy

                            1980 XS1100G (Brutus) w/81H Engine
                            Duplicolor Mirage Paint Job (Purple/Green)
                            Vetter Windjammer IV
                            Vetter hard bags & Trunk
                            OEM Luggage Rack
                            Jardine Spaghetti 4-2 exhaust system
                            Spade Fuse Box
                            Turn Signal Auto Cancel Mod
                            750 FD Mod
                            TC Spin on Oil Filter Adapter (temp removed)
                            XJ1100 Front Footpegs
                            XJ1100 Shocks

                            I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by b.walker5 View Post
                              Yeah, maybe.... but you gotta admit, they look pretty similair, and I think the reference was to some cb's, not all of them.

                              Please dont shoot the messenger. I have no particular love for the dark side and only venture over there occassionaly out of curiosty. I just seen that snippet and figured it might be useful for Lucien, and given that the parts look pretty close it'd probably be worth digging deeper to see if they are actually compatible.
                              Like I said they are electrically the same. The Honda unit is about 12mm wider, uses different plugs and wiring color codes. I made an adapter cable set so I can test Honda units on my XS11 and I know they will work but there's no point in using them because the Honda unit is weaker and you're more likely to find a dead used one that the OEM Yamaha reg/rec. It would make more sense to go the other way and use an XX11 reg/rec on Honda. The problem with that is that most guys can't seem to figure out how to do the tests much less translate color coded and do custom wiring.

                              Geezer
                              Hi my name is Tony and I'm a bikeoholic.

                              The old gray biker ain't what he used to be.

                              Comment

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