Starter doesn't turn

[Incubus]

I've gone back to work on Succubus. I pretty much have ignored her for the last couple of years. Couldn't get the bike to fire on No. 1 at idle. I have Incubus, the other '79 XS11, and he is running extremely well.

And yes, before you ask, I do plan to breed them.

Anyway, when I stopped working on Succubus she would start right up and run like the wind, she just wouldn't idle worth a damn. I did not strip any parts from her that would prevent her from starting when I was rebuilding Incubus, so I expected no change. I put in a new battery, hit the starter button and.... nothing.

Well, OK, I did take out the reg/rec and replaced it with one of unknown functionality, but I have not know reg/rec to prevent a starter from turning.

I took the starter button apart and cleaned it out. Still nothing. I checked it with my circuit tester and it gets juice, although it seems intermittent. Can't explain how that could be. I jumped the solenoid and the starter turned, so I ruled out the starter. The solenoid worked before and it has been sitting in my garage since then, so I have no reason to suspect it. I do suspect it, but I have no reason to.

Can anyone think of anything else I should look at before I replace/rebuild the solenoid? Succubus won't be running for a while, but I need the engine to turn over so I can do some tests.

Thanks, in advance.

Patrick

[fredintoon]

- - - I put in a new battery, hit the starter button and.... nothing. - - - I took the starter button apart and cleaned it out. Still nothing. I checked it with my circuit tester and it gets juice, although it seems intermittent. Can't explain how that could be. I jumped the solenoid and the starter turned, so I ruled out the starter. The solenoid worked before and it has been sitting in my garage since then, so I have no reason to suspect it. I do suspect it, but I have no reason to. - - -

Hi Patrick,
Start at the starter and work backwards.
You jumped the solenoid and the starter works.
Next step is to jump the starter button and it's circuits.
Run wires direct from the battery to the low amperage side of the solenoid.
Connect the ground wire solid and press the hot wire on by hand (or go hi-tech and use an in-line switch)
If the solenoid don't work like that, it's hooped.
If it does, the fault is upstream.

[DGXSER]

I have not worke don the 79 and I believe they are a little different form the 80-81 models. However, on the 80-81 model, power goes form the battery, to the ignition key (so if you have lights on like the neutral light and oil light, that part is working). Then it goes to the fuse box by the tan wire which splits into three tan wires at the fuse box (again this is 80-81). All three feed a fuse, the ignition, tail, and signal fuses. Verify you have power on each side of the ignition fuse. It is the red/white leaving wire (again, 80-81 model). That wire goes up to the e-stop switch on the right handlebar, then back to the hot side of the starter solenoid low side. So you could just check if you have power at the red/white wire at the solenoid after checking the fuse. If all that works out, then the blue low side wire runs to the starter switch, so you can check back up there for juice. If that is good, then the starter button or the ground is the issue.

As long as that bike sat, I'd say check all the grounds for good contact.

[Incubus]

OK, so I grounded the blue/white wire that is soldered to the solenoid to the frame and the engine turned. I interpret that to mean my solenoid is fine. That leaves me with the starter button, possibly, the kill switch. I can't recall. Will the engine crank if the kill switch is in the "off" position? I would try it on Incubus, but the kill switch on Incubus is pretty much stuck where it is. If I use it, it probably won't go back in the "on" position. Cracked innards. This reminds me I meant to do something about that....

If I am reading the wiring diagram correctly, the blue/white wire goes directly from the start button to the solenoid. There doesn't seem to be anything else in line that would prevent it from working, so the start button has issues. It shouldn't. I just cleaned the contacts.

Patrick

[DGXSER]

Well, IIRC, that switch grounds through the handlebars. And basically, the blue/white wire to the start button is the ground side of the solenoid. So, the wire goes to the start button then that button goes to ground. If the button is not the problem, then grounding from it may be.

[natemoen]

Will the engine crank if the kill switch is in the "off" position?

No the engine will not crank with the kill switch in the off position.

[DGXSER]

This is true, however, if you have power at the power side of the "low" side of the solenoid, then it is past the kill switch already.

[Incubus]

Ah Freakin Ha

OK, I removed and polished up the starter button, the bracket and the contacts between the control and the handlebars. Still nothing. I connected a 12 volt power source to the end of the L/W wire and put my tester on the other end. The wire is intact. But then.....

I was wrong. I did switch out the right handlebar control from Succubus when I was getting Incubus running. I do not remember doing it. How do I know? Because I finally looked more closely.

When I got Incubus he came with two parts bikes. Incubus is a Standard. The parts bikes were both Specials. All are '79s. Did you know the right handlebar control on '79 Standards is different from the right handlebar control on '79 Specials? Incubus' original right hand control was missing. One of the Specials had one. I don't know why I used it on the non-running bike, but I did. Special controls, like the one I have on Succubus right now, have four wires coming out of them. Standards have five. The control I put on Succubus has three. WTH. It has two R/W and one L/W. A complete Special control also has a black wire. A complete Standard control also has a L/B and a R/Y wire. Both the R/W and the R/Y run to fuses, so I am missing a power source.

I cannot explain why this control does not have the right number of wires for either model. But I think I can finally explain why my starter button does not work.

Crap. Does anyone have a right '79 Standard control they have no need for?

Patrick

[DGXSER]

Just looked and my 81 Specials have four wires. The two red/white or red/yellow (it is early and I di not bother looking that close) go to the kill switch and simply complete a circuit. The L/W goes to the start button, and black from the start button to ground.

So, you oculd simply look at your start button and see where th eblack wire should attach, connect one and run it to ground. That would at least prove your theory. You could even run it in the proper sheathing with the other wires.

[Incubus]

Gimme a break

OK, now I have entered the world of the surreal. The following sequence is true. The facts have not been changed for shock effect.

So I go back to work this morning on the stupid starter button. Forget that late night revelation about the number of wires. I checked the switch on my running bike and it also has only three wires running into the right hand controls. I open it up. I see nowhere for any other wire to connect.

So I disconnect everything on Succubus and check for continuity. I use a 12-volt battery and a circuit tester. I hook up the circuit tester to one end of each wire segment and the circuit tester to the other. All are carrying juice appropriately. I hook up the two-wire connector by the solenoid and connect a jumper to the L/W wire at the junction by the fork (nail into the connector to make contact). Ground it and the engine cranks. Push the starter button. Nothing. I tear down the right hand control. I ground the B/W wire to the handlebar with the jumper. The engine cranks. I put it back together and push the button. Nothing.

I say, in frustration, "That's it. I'm parting you out." I didn't say it that nice. Profanity may have been committed. I turn the handlebars and my thumb slips onto the starter button. It cranks. I push it again. It cranks. WTH.

Threats work.

The starter continues to crank while I test compression in the engine. I get disturbing numbers, that will be the subject of another thread. I don't believe the result for No. 3. Decide to retest. Push the button. Nothing. Push it again. Nothing. Ground the L/W solder connection from the solenoid. the engine cranks.

This mother is haunted.

Patrick

[DGXSER]

My bet is that L/W wire in the switch or the harness has a bad spot in it, mostlikely in the wires from the switch to where they connect to the harness under the tank as that is where they move when you turn the bars.

Try running a separate wire from the connector under the tank to the starter button or even just to ground and see if it turns.