Question about Rotor/Stator

[whiskey pete]

I pulled the cover off the side to inspect the rotor and stator to enhance the reliability of the elec. system. The rotor had a little rust and the coils check out for ohms as per the manual. My question is would their be any benifit to using Di-electric grease on the rotor for re-assembly or just clean it and put it back together dry? Thanks in advance guys.

[DGXSER]

Hmmm...now I have never pulled the stator off the bike as of yet. Shortly to be rectified when I part out the beaten heart of Thunderstruck, both top and bottom cases had bolt holes shredded when the engine guards(yeah what a name for them) bent back and destroyed both sides of the engine. But I digress....I also am no electrical guru by any stretch.

however, when you put the two pieces together, are they not suppose to create an electrical field to generate the power? Di-Electric grease would seem to create a barrior to the flow of electricity and thereby defeat the purpose of the device.

[Ivan]

I don't see any purpose in putting grease on the rotor. If you have an XJ with the brushed alternator, then DON'T use grease. It will trap the little bits of carbon from the brushes and shavings of brass from the rings and eventually short out the rotor. This will eventually lead to a burnt up regulator and brushes.

On the XS with the brushless alternator, I can't see it causing a problem, but would be un necessary. If you're worried about rust on it, don't. The rust won't cause any issues with the electrical part of it all. The rotor is just a wheel that disrupts the magnetic field of the coil in the middle, and there is enough iron in it that a bit of rust isn't going to cause a problem at all.

[XJOK2PLAY]

Couple of things...

Rusty rotor shouldn't be a problem. You can check alt. output w/ a voltmeter, and by the brightness of the headlight, and the performance of the turn signal flashes...

Also, do not try to start the bike if the alt cover is removed! Gally plug will shoot out, and oil will go everwhere! (Just a reminder, if you already knew...)

But a little rust shouldn't be a problem. Others may have a differing opinion, but I wouldn't do the dielectric.

[CatatonicBug]

however, when you put the two pieces together, are they not suppose to create an electrical field to generate the power? Di-Electric grease would seem to create a barrior to the flow of electricity and thereby defeat the purpose of the device.

The dielectric grease won't create a barrier to electricity flow in this case, since the objects are not designed to flow electricity between each other. The electricity flows through the field coil (mounted to the center of the inside of the cover), and separately, through the stator (also mounted to the inside of the cover). The rotor spins between these two sets of wires, creating electricity.

So, the only thing dielectric grease does is create a barrier to corrosion without conducting electricity through itself. If it were me, I would leave the rotor dry, and just reassemble. The small rust covering on the rotor won't cause a problem. If you want to remove the rotor and dunk it in some rust remover, then clean and coat it in grease, I suppose it wouldn't hurt either.

[natemoen]

As stated there is no electric transfer between the parts in question, so shouldnt cause a problem.

Dielectric grease does create a barrier for electricity. It should only be used on electric parts where the contacts are pressed together because that is the only way for electricity to pass through the grease.

[fredintoon]

I pulled the cover off the side to inspect the rotor and stator to enhance the reliability of the elec. system. The rotor had a little rust and the coils check out for ohms as per the manual. My question is would their a.be any benifit to using Di-electric grease on the rotor for re-assembly or just clean it and put it back together dry? Thanks in advance guys.

Hi pete,
the XS11 rotor has no windings or brush rings, it's just a steel thing with holes in that spins to stir up the flux between the inner stationary electromagnet and the outer stationary windings so they make A.C.
The rust won't affect anything.

[CatatonicBug]

Dielectric grease does create a barrier for electricity. It should only be used on electric parts where the contacts are pressed together because that is the only way for electricity to pass through the grease.

Actually, it creates no more of a barrier to electricity than dry air does. The benefit of using dielectric grease is that you can coat electric contacts with it, blocking air and moisture to impede corrosion. It will not conduct electricity, therefore, you can coat several contacts with the same "glob" of grease without worrying about shorting the circuit. It works great in the left handlebar controls, with all the moving parts, and does double-duty as a bit of a lubricant for the switches at the same time.

[b.walker5]

Actually, it creates no more of a barrier to electricity than dry air does. The benefit of using dielectric grease is that you can coat electric contacts with it, blocking air and moisture to impede corrosion. It will not conduct electricity, therefore, you can coat several contacts with the same "glob" of grease without worrying about shorting the circuit. It works great in the left handlebar controls, with all the moving parts, and does double-duty as a bit of a lubricant for the switches at the same time.

Actually, it does create a barrier to electricity. Thats part of it's purpose. It's NON CONDUCTIVE, therefore a complete barrier to electricity. If you apply too much of it to your contacts and plugs, and prevent metal to metal contact then electricity wont flow. But, while it's a barrier to the flow of electricity, it's NOT a barrier to the flow of magnetisim, which is what's referred to in this discussion about the alternator. However it's of no benefit whatsoever, because theres no metal to metal contact and nothing that needs sealed in this instance.

It's other, and perhaps main purpose, as has been stated previously, is to seal a connection from air and moisture allowing a 'clean' and corrosion free contact between conductive components.

[natemoen]

Actually, it creates no more of a barrier to electricity than dry air does.

Electricity cannot jump through dielectric grease (unless the parts are physically touching), but electricity can jump through dry air.

[Ivan]

Here goes:

First, I should say that the rotor is merely a disruptor of the magnetic field which causes electrons to flow, and that the rust on the rotor won't effect that. No one has said that yet.

Next, dielectric grease can pass electricity. Air can as well. In fact, everything in the known universe except one thing can pass electricity. The only thing that can't is a pure vacuum, and those are mere theory with out practice, so essentially every material substance can pass electricity. The difference being that some things pass it more radily than others. In comparison to dry air, dielectric grease has much more resistance to electricity than air. The dielectric part just comes from the fact that it doesn't have any conductive materials in it. Ever try using some moly grease or lithium grease on an electrical connection? Most dielectric is silicone based, but, in a pinch, petroleum jelly will work. The purpose of the grease is to seal the connection without providing a conductive path between the terminals.On more modern applications, the connectors themselves have gaskets that seal against contamination, which negates the need for dielectric grease. So, dielectric grease isn't intended to be an insulator, although it does act like one in some respects.

Somewhere, hidden in the above, is a point that I was trying to make.

[DGXSER]

We'll contact Sherlock Holmes to see if he can find it.

But the short answer to it all is I misunderstood the construction under the cover thinking the field coils were on the rotating portion. Good thing I clarified that I had never pulled that cover.

[psycoreefer]

nope, none of the electrical parts move, which is kinda cool, but I suspect the design severely limits the amount of power you can produce, otherwise you'd see it on car alternators and such and I've never seen another one like this setup.

Do a google search for albertson alternator, kind of a variation on our design that was used to produce HF radio signals.

[Geezer]

nope, none of the electrical parts move, which is kinda cool, but I suspect the design severely limits the amount of power you can produce, otherwise you'd see it on car alternators and such and I've never seen another one like this setup.

For what it's worth, all of the SOHC Honda fours from 1969~1978 used the same design alternator but Honda ran it wet. As I recall the the little 600cc Honda care also had the this type alternator. It has it's advantages but max power output isn't one of them...

Geezer

[cywelchjr]

For what it's worth, all of the SOHC Honda fours from 1969~1978 used the same design alternator but Honda ran it wet. As I recall the the little 600cc Honda care also had the this type alternator. It has it's advantages but max power output isn't one of them...

Geezer

I don't know what my old CL360 had for an alternator type, but I know it ran wet. The manual even told you to make sure it was on the center stand and put something under it when removing the cover (which you had to do to set the timing. IIRC there wasn't an oil filter either, just a really fine metal screen that you had to clean each time you changed the oil (every 1500 miles or so as well, or something like every 700 miles under dirty conditions, which since I lived in AZ at the time was what I had to deal with, it was like change the oil every 3rd tank of gas or something like that. ).

I also recall that it had a two stage system, with different output levels with the headlight on or off. Sometimes to charge the battery faster I would turn on the headlight and unplug the bulb (ran a CB radio on it, so I needed the extra juice) .