Yet another idiot with Rear Wheel Swap issues!

[bgrubb7]

That's right, even with a flurry of wheel swap threads around here, it still seems like I'm the village idiot that still doesn't get it. Well, actually I may have found a combination that works for me, but am still baffled as to how we have so many different combinations of results out there.

Oh, ya. I've got a Standard with a 17" rear, and have swapped to a 16" rear from a Special, mainly due to the available tire choices in 16".

I did my research and talked to people who had done it before. I discovered that I needed, the 16" wheel, Left side plastic spacer, the Right side wheel axle spacer, and the Brake caliper bracket and torque bracket. Got em all, thanks to Yahman..

The problem is that I can't get it to fit with all of the spacers and brackets from the 16" wheel.

This is what has worked for me so far. I've got the Axle spacer from my 17" Std., the Bracket from the 17"Std (although both caliper brackets looked identical to me), NO spacer between the caliper bracket and torque arm, and using the torque arm from the 16" special...

[bgrubb7]

Now here is a pic of what a 16" wheel on a Std is supposed to look like (taken from a Ken Talbot post)

The problem, is I don't have any room for that spacer right of the caliper bracket. I realize that the Torque bracket I have on mine right now has a "washer" welded to it, which makes it a little wider than Ken's, but it nowhere near makes up for the width of that Bracket spacer.

[randy]

Left side plastic spacer

??

To my knowlege, there are NO plastic spacers in either axle system.

[WMarshy]

You sure you have the spline on the rim fully engaged?

[bgrubb7]

Here is where I'd like some definitive answers from some of you gurus So I can document

All of the swingarms and axles are the same widths. This is true?

We only have 2 different wheels right? 17" and 16". There are not separate Std and Special versions of the same size wheel correct? The 16" is wider, than the 17" hence the need for different spacers and brackets, right?

Are all of the Discs the same, or are there different offsets between Std and Specials? From my research they are all the same.

Are the actual caliper brackets supposed to be different? Both of mine are exactly the same. They even have the exact same #s stamped in them. Are there supposed to be different sized bracket spacers? I'm taking about the one that is to the right of the caliper bracket between it and the torque arm.

The torque arms ARE different. My Special bracket has a "washer" welded to it on the axle hole. The Std bracket does not.

The right hand wheel axle spacer from the Std is wider (narrower wheel) the Special 16" wheel spacer is narrow (Wider wheel)?

Here's a pic of the parts I have...


From left I have 1. My original 17" spacer, 2. My new 16" Spacer, 3. New 16" Caliper bracket (although identical to my existing bracket), 4. Original 17" Bracket spacer, 5. Original 17" torque bracket, 6. New 16" Torque bracket.

[bgrubb7]

Sorry I got that last post started before I saw your replies. What I mean by the plastic Left hand spacer, is the one that screws to the wheel between the drive unit and the wheel. I'm sure there is a proper name for it.

Yes, it is pressed all the way into the drive unit as far as I can tell. Here's a rear shot, and everything looks centered...

[bgrubb7]

Here's another pic of where I installed all of the 16" spacers and brackets. Everything fit, width wise, but the caliper bracket wouldn't line up at all. It was like i needed a disc with a completely different offset. I'm not talking about just a .05" or anything, it was at least .25-.375" off.

I flipped the caliper bracket around, just so I could get it on the axle. I just wanted to find out if I had the correct total width of spacers, which I did. Again, I realize that the caliper bracket and spacer in tis pic is backwards, I was just checking to see if the total width was correct.

[bgrubb7]

??

To my knowlege, there are NO plastic spacers in either axle system.

This is what I was talking about. The Plastic piece that fills the gap between the drive unit and the wheel. The one on the 16" wheel is not as wide as the one on the narrower 17" wheel.

[petejw]

i havent done what your doing,
but i vaguely remember someone else
doing something similar and the rear rotors
were different, in that they had a different off set.
i had a quick look but couldnt find anything.

[jmnjrpa]

That's

The final drive dust shield. I can't help on the differences but could give you a pic of the componets on the special if that would help. I have had no dealings with the standard.

[bgrubb7]

Yes, jm, that would be awesome. I'd love to see a pic from a stock Special configuration with the Stock 16" wheel. After all, that is basically what I'm trying to achieve here.

[crazy steve]

All of the swingarms and axles are the same widths. This is true?

We only have 2 different wheels right? 17" and 16". There are not separate Std and Special versions of the same size wheel correct? The 16" is wider, than the 17" hence the need for different spacers and brackets, right?

Are all of the Discs the same, or are there different offsets between Std and Specials? From my research they are all the same.

Are the actual caliper brackets supposed to be different? Both of mine are exactly the same. They even have the exact same #s stamped in them. Are there supposed to be different sized bracket spacers? I'm taking about the one that is to the right of the caliper bracket between it and the torque arm.

The torque arms ARE different. My Special bracket has a "washer" welded to it on the axle hole. The Std bracket does not.

The right hand wheel axle spacer from the Std is wider (narrower wheel) the Special 16" wheel spacer is narrow (Wider wheel)?

Here's a pic of the parts I have...


From left I have 1. My original 17" spacer, 2. My new 16" Spacer, 3. New 16" Caliper bracket (although identical to my existing bracket), 4. Original 17" Bracket spacer, 5. Original 17" torque bracket, 6. New 16" Torque bracket.

After just going through this, this I can definitively answer...

The swingarms/axles are all the same width. The discs are all the same too (well, there are some out there with a slightly different dish, but it's only .050" different so that will show up as poor caliper alignment). Where all the problems come from is the WHEEL, and it has nothing to do with rim width.

The wheels centers on the two are the same except for one thing; on the special, the disc mounting flange is .300" further out. That's the only difference for 'fitting' purposes. So this means that to line up the caliper with the disc, you need to move the whole caliper assembly away from the hub the same amount. So in your 'parts pic', you have (left to right): the 'special' spacer, the 'standard' spacer (not the other way; if you measure these, you'll find that there's .3" difference between them), the caliper bracket (the same for either wheel), the outer spacer for the 17" wheel (not needed/won't fit for the 16"), and the two 'torque arms' (identified correctly). Because you've moved the caliper with the 16" wheel and no longer have a spacer between the caliper bracket and the torque arm, the 'special' arm is bent/formed differently to maintain alignment. There's no spacer between the torque arm and the swingarm on either combo.

'78E original owner

[bgrubb7]

Awesome Steve. Thanks! So basically what your saying is that my first pic is correct??

I just had my 2 wheel spacers misidentified from the get go. I could have sworn up and down that the thinner spacer was the one I received from Yahman and that the wider one was the original one from the 17" wheel I already had. Obviously I got them switched around.

What really threw me off, was when I came across this pic, which I don't see how there is any way in hell that you can fit that combo of spacers with a 16" wheel. Even if the description of that pic were backwards and it was actually a pic of a 17" wheel on a special, I still don't see how it would work. This pic threw me in a total loop and made me second guess how I had it setup.

[Incubus]

FWIW, I am not an XS genius (Not even a Guru), but my Standard is configured as you are trying to do. Here is a picture:

It is a tight fit, but it works. To make it all fit together you have to use the STANDARD brake caliper bracket. otherwise it will not line up.

Yeah, it's filthy. I ride more than I wash.

BTW, not the steal the thread, but does anybody know what those little hooks just above the axle are there for?

Patrick

[crazy steve]

Awesome Steve. Thanks! So basically what your saying is that my first pic is correct??

I just had my 2 wheel spacers misidentified from the get go. I could have sworn up and down that the thinner spacer was the one I received from Yahman and that the wider one was the original one from the 17" wheel I already had. Obviously I got them switched around.

What really threw me off, was when I came across this pic, which I don't see how there is any way in hell that you can fit that combo of spacers with a 16" wheel. Even if the description of that pic were backwards and it was actually a pic of a 17" wheel on a special, I still don't see how it would work. This pic threw me in a total loop and made me second guess how I had it setup.

Yes, your first pic is right. As to the other pic, it appears there's a non-stock inner spacer and it looks like they may have 'tweaked' the swingarm to get it to all fit judging by how the axle sleeve is misaligned. With the right parts, it slides right together without forcing.

'78E original owner