Help - valve question

[Robert Haller]

I noticed a distinct tapping noise coming from the right side front valve cover when I started up today. Any thoughts as to what this could be due to? (I have been running seafoam in the gas lately, perhaps cleaning carbon off valves?). I've got a mc trip next weekend so if this sounds like I might need a valve adjustment I need to take it in pronto! TIA

[strom]

Try adjusting camchain tensioner.

LP

[MartyA]

Cam chain is in the middle, might be slapping or need adjustment, but a tapping noise on the right side sounds like a valve. Does it change when you change RPM? Does it go away after a few moments?

Solid lifters can be a little noisy sometimes, and can become noisy if the oil is old, low, or being restricted from flowing there.

If you are going on a trip, better at least check the valve clearance. Order a replacement gasket, then remove the cam cover. The feeler gage measurement might tell you something. While you are under there check the cam timing, in case the chain jumped.

[Robert Haller]

Originally posted by MartyA
Cam chain is in the middle, might be slapping or need adjustment, but a tapping noise on the right side sounds like a valve. Does it change when you change RPM? Does it go away after a few moments?

The tapping does speed up with RPM. It is loudest when I start up cold, it is not as prominent after warming up but is still detectable.

[MartyA]

If it's on top, sounds like valve / cam / lifter. If it was lower, might consider piston slap.

Could be something simple like excessive lifter clearance. Once the oil gets up in the journals it would quiet down a little.

Don't know if a bent valve would make that noise. Also I don't know if a bent valve shows up in a compression test. With solid lifters sometimes it goes away, mostly though it does not.

Might as well open the top and take a look. That gasket is under $10. I just bought a bunch, it was one of the cheaper ones.

Anyone got any ideas for Bob?

[fusionking]

Lifters??????????????

[TopCatGr58]

Yes...Lifters!!

Hey there FusionKing,

Even though they sit ontop of the valves and hold the shims, and push 'down' on the valves, the manuals still call them "Lifters" !
I guess for want of a better term, and to help ?decrease? confusion!! They serve a similar purpose as the lifter, a go between part that the valve lobes can push against to open the valves!? Go figure!?

And Marty, a bent valve DOES show up on a compression test, as in essentially zero compression, when the bend is at the neck of the valve, not way up near the keeper. I had the slightest wobble bend in one after I first did my topend rebuild and had replaced 2 other bent valves, but this one looked like it was seating properly, I had already had them all out and had relapped them before it had gotten bent. I then had the engine all the way back together, on the bench, and decided to do a bench comp. test just to check for any other bent valves, and I had one cylinder with ZERO comp.! So I had to tear it back down and replace that valve after removing the springs, and spinning it in the seat, I could THEN see the slight wobble in it!!! Lots of fun removing and then re-replacing and re-timing the cams!!

T.C.

[uk1.1s]

Lifters.... or....

Marty - TopCat - sounds like you are describing buckets in my terminology, the cylinderical bucket shape things that the shims sit on top of.

Strange how different terms grow up eh? - I can see where 'lifter' come from though, so do probs in working out what we are all talking about.

Ever heard the term 'bucket and shim' valve adjusters in the US as well?

Agree with the bent valve = low / no compression, yep, that's how a diagnosed bad running after a bit of head work where I was rather heavy handed getting all back together agan.

To get back to the thread question - clicking / tapping from one side of the cam cover does sound very much like a shim needs looking at, but more worrying if this is a sudden start of the noise. Best to have a look at those clearances in the first instance and see what you've got - maybe concentrate on where you detect the noise is coming from first - best 'o' luck

[Snow]

Might as well open the top and take a look. That gasket is under $10. I just bought a bunch, it was one of the cheaper ones.

So *you* are the one that took all of partsnmore stock when I desperately need one, eh?

[Robert Haller]

Update

I did not check compression but I have noticed no loss in power, it still runs strong as over. I'm guessing it is just a valve adjustment issue since that hasn't been done in at least since I've had the bike and it gets better when the engine warms up. That's what I'm banking on since I went ahead and dropped it off for valve adjustment.

[skids]

Re: Update

Adjusting the valve clearances can be a bit tricky. If you had one that was borderline tight and it was adjusted, it is now borderline loose. Loose valves do clatter a bit more.

If it is cam chain noise, I would look into it. Be aware that if the cam chain stopper bolt/housing is stripped, it can allow the tensioner to work into a loose-chain position and lead to the chain slipping on the cam chain sprockets, causing bent valves!!! How is that for an ominous warning? I did that in my earlier xs11 wrenching experiences. I think Dave hogue had something like this hapen to him also (valve damage). If you check it (chain tension), just go by the book and make sure it isn't stripped. No big deal really. =8-)

Originally posted by Robert Haller
I did not check compression but I have noticed no loss in power, it still runs strong as over. I'm guessing it is just a valve adjustment issue since that hasn't been done in at least since I've had the bike and it gets better when the engine warms up. That's what I'm banking on since I went ahead and dropped it off for valve adjustment.

[MartyA]

I did buy two of those, Snow. Only used one of them, if you have a problem lemme know.

[Robert Haller]

Re: Re: Update

Originally posted by skids
Adjusting the valve clearances can be a bit tricky. If you had one that was borderline tight and it was adjusted, it is now borderline loose. Loose valves do clatter a bit more.

If it is cam chain noise, I would look into it.

I took it into a Yamaha dealership for valve adjustment, hopefully they can do it right. : )

I don't believe it's a cam chain issue but I'll check the stopper bolt and readjust when I get the bike back. The cam chain itself is not noisy, only at the front right corner of the valve cover.

[Shuriken]

My bike ticks when I start it up and run it too. Before I had my single cylinder Honda thumper rebuilt, it had some of the same sounds. And as you may know, the Honda dirt bike does not even have the same valve mechanism. (It has rocker arms instead of overhead cam lobes that ride directly over the valve shim and valve.) But after the rebuild, those sounds went away. I attribute most of it to the new piston and rings - the old ones were so worn the piston was making noise in the cylinder. Also replaced valve springs and valves.

I'm thinking with my PSI readings from my xs (with 45k+ miles) and from valve clearance figures, that my xs is making the clicking/tapping noises because of a combination of old/worn valves and springs / piston wear or slap. My bike also burns some oil. What you hope is that you are really not hearing bearing noises and thinking it's something else!

Ben

[Courtney]

Being a VW aircooled addict (have owned 6 of them in the last 10 years alone, still have 2), I would rather have a bit of valve noise than none at all!!!! A noisy valve at least tells you it is closing completely on the compression stroke and has some play on the bucket - cam surface. A noisy valve is disconcerting but not as bad as burning one if it has zero clearance. I have a noisy one right now, maybe 2 of em on the XS but I'm not in any hurry to change the shims, as it's a PITA and requires a new gasket which is getting to be big bucks up here in Canada. Somebody says partsnmore has em??