Clutch problem and engine vin number help!

[autoxtraz]

Hi all - having a problem with a clutch on XS11 - bike came to us a non runner - have now fitted all new clutch plates, springs, basket etc - old one were not supplied with bike - EVERYTHING is in-spec - added new clutch cable (OEM) - but clutch keeps dragging/crashing when going into gear - almost clears but not all the way so machine is unuseable as is - any suggestions? vin number for engine is SK7-012263 so we assume it is NOT an SF model so has 8 friction & 7 steel plates (but not the extra mentioned somewhere on this forum?)
All help greatly appreciated.

[DiverRay]

You have the European, 1981 XS1100S. The serial number should be a 5K7, not SK7. For the clutch release, start with the cable loose, and adjust the release under the right side cover EXACTLY as explained in the Yamaha manual. If you do not do this, the clutch will NOT release properly. As you had it apart, make sure the ball inside the release mechanism is still in place. If it's missing, the clutch again will not release properly. Welcome to the site.

[autoxtraz]

Thanks but done that - still no joy any other suggestions?

Thanks but done all that - still no joyt - trying to get some feedback before rip the guts out of gearbox/tranny

[TopCatGr58]

Hey AUtoxtraz,

You spoke about the extra steel plate mod, did you look at the tech tip for the extra steel, or the one for the Dremel Tranny fix? There are photos showing the clutch parts. The Microfiche can be hard to read sometimes!

There are 2 thrust washers, one INSIDE the basket between the basket and the clutch boss assembly, the other behind the basket next to the engine case. BTW, the larger diameter one is the one inside the basket, the slightly smaller one goes on the shaft. IF the larger one is used there it can prevent proper oil flow, Tod/Trbig discovered this flaw! Anyways, just saying might help to ensure that you had/have all the parts.

T.C.

[autoxtraz]

^&*^%$ Clutch!

Well everything was as it should be when opened for the 4th time - so decided on extra plates - after searching quite a few sites/threads we decided to fit 1 of each plate got to the last final nip of the last bolt on the Star Plate - and.....YUP! I'm going to be $50 light this week - dammed thing split like a kipper - so back to square one - find a new pressure plate and then try only 1 plate this time......

[TopCatGr58]

Sorry to hear that,

But that can happen with just the stock plate count. I warned, and it's warned about in separate tech tips as well, even showed what is needed to do to AVOID that happening in the Tranny and clutch tips!

You probably wouldn't have been able to get the throwout rod/lever adjusted with the 2 extra plates anyways, the pack would have been too thick/deep and the rod would NOT stick out far enough for the lever and lock nut to engage enough threads to secure it properly.

Will also be interesting to hear that you are able to get a new star plate, because they are listed as Not Available, even though Bike Bandit shows it's price, there is NO quantity box to be able to place an order!

Most folks have to get a used one from Ebay or Andreas Weiss!

Also, the original problem was the clutch dragging, not disengaging completely, so I don't see how adding an extra plate would help that?? Not having the adjustment set properly, aside from warped plates is what would keep the plates meshed together to create drag. Also as mentioned, notches in the basket where the plates slide could also cause the problem.

The star plate breaking doesn't necessarily indicate a flaw in the star plate, it's cast aluminum, and easily cracks/fractures when one of the spring towers gets misaligned and catches the lip on the end of the point of the star!
T.C.

[ManagerMike]

Just two talking points on this one from my humble experinces...
(1), many aftermarket steels are warped "out of the box".
(2),when replacing a 'wet' clutch, always 'soak new friction disks in the manufacturer's recommended crankcase lubricant' (i.e. the oil YOU use in your bike) prior to installation, to prevent clutch lockup or dragging.
Don't know if either of these apply to your situation, just thought I'd throw them out there.... good luck!

[autoxtraz]

Follow up to clutch drama

Well got a new oem starplate from an old source who did'nt know what he had! also managed to get the old one welded too! Has both of them in an still bike is in gear! not just dragging....
To recap: New cable OEM, New basket, New steels, New frictions inc 1 extra, New star plate and measure all plates all frictions dead on 3.0mm +/- 0.05.
All properly adjusted here - I am no novice - been building bikes for 35 years! but I'm buggered with this one - HELP!
When bike is in gear - 1st or second, pull cluch in (3mm play at top of lever and flex in bottom as per factory specs) box just crashes into gear as if no cluch in use.....

[DGXSER]

First of all, these bikes tranny just are clunky and noisy. When shifting into gear from a start, it clunks in loudly. So unless it moves or stalls the bike, it may be acting normally.

Well, the only additional I have read about is adding an extra steel plate and not a friction plate Sound slike you made the adjustment on both ends of the cable correct? I assume you have also checked that your steels are not warped.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey AutoTrax,

I recently had the opportunity to take apart the clutch throwout mechanism while making a hyd. clutch cylinder adapter plate for Geezer! I pulled the throwout lever off, pulled out the throwout 3 ball/plate/rod assembly from the clutch case. Messed with a bit, and then put it back together, and had gotten the assembly like 180 degrees out of position/rotation. The position of the throwout lever was much higher when it would have been put on the throwout assembly, and would NOT have had as much distance to properly actuate the throwout assembly/rod to depress the clutch star plate very far inwards towards the engine.

I took the throwout assembly slightly back out, so that I could rotate it to position it in a different point of rotation and still meshed with the 3 balls/grooves, then rotated it again, until it lined up properly so that the lever was positioned much farther lower in the clutch case area, which would then allow more throwout distance of the lever. This may NOT be your problem, but wanted to throw it out there!?

With the extra plate, you should have needed to adjust/rotate the throwout ROD much farther inwards towards the engine/star plate before it should contact the starplate before backing out 1/4 turn and locking in place. The extra plate will position the clutch pack deeper, requiring the deeper adjustment of the throwout rod, and IF it's not just touching the star plate, then the throwout lever has to rotate much farther...more clutch handle lever THROW distance to get the throwout assembly to move far enough inwards to engage the star plate and then still have some action distance to separate the pack.

But also, as has been stated, the gears are spinning, and when you just pull in the clutch and shift into 1st, you get a SOLID CLUNK as it shifts a spinning gear against a non spinning gear!

Is it killing the engine/stalling it when you shift into 1st, or are you just experiencing the strong CLUNK, but the engine keeps running!?
T.C.

[petejw]

jat,
if the bikes idling high, itll want to
thump into gear, maybe taking up a bit more slack
in the cable at the lever might help a little also.

[autoxtraz]

Thanks for replys but....

All good points you guys raised - but we have done all that - the throw out lever should normally position about 4 o'clock as you look at it, tried the 2 plates & cost us a star plate....yes the rod does screw in further with the extra plate. As far a a clunk going into gear - yes (I normally ride Harleys) but this is a full crash of gears and a stall because it's a acting like no clutch present! thats the paroblems - all logic says it must work but somethings not right! and it happens in 2nd/3rd too! just riding without a clutch......

[DGXSER]

Then I would suggest checing the order of the install. There are two washers in there and if one is the wrong spot, I believe it can cause issues. Kinda grabbing at straws right now.

[79XS11F]

Go right back to the basics ans set it up stock. Pull the entire clutch and reinstall as per the manual. Check those washers closely and position them correctly if they are currently incorrect. Check the shaft itself for lateral movement. Don't use the extra steel plate for the time being. If the clutch is as good as stated you likely don't need that extra steel at this point in time. Make sure to load the steels and fibers in the correct order. Fiber in first and fiber in last. Set and adjust stock as per the manual and it should work properly. Make sure the ring gear on the clutch housing is engaging with the idler gear behind it when reinstalling.
Rob

[petejw]

"and it happens in 2nd/3rd too! just riding without a clutch....."


its not the transmission (gears) playing up?



whats the history of the bike? how did it run before you started
pulling it apart?