Paint help

[Rickrod3]

Rickrod3,

I consider Runs, Drips, and Sags as a good thing. It's a sign that you actually applied enough finish to do some good/lasting protection. That's a departure from the standard approach people take.

Applying the spray in light coats to avoid runs is a good concept/practice. But if one follows up in between applications with mechanical abrasion (sanding) to get a good "tooth" for the next coat then IMO it's sorta self-defeating. Each time you "sand lightly" it removes material. The finish may be dry to the touch at the surface but underneath it's still soft/uncured so more material than one would expect is removed. ( Also has a tendency to gum up the sandpaper and further add to difficulty...) The goal of the process is to apply a finish so removing half of an already thin coat seems counter-productive. IMO this practice adds a lot of unnecessary time/labor to the project, results in a thinner finish than required, and makes the sandpaper/paint manufacturers RICH.

My standard practice doesn't play into these flaws. I start out like everyone else by doing a good prep. Then I place the object to be painted under a heat source: Sun or heat lamp. I paint it while it's still hot with the usual thin coats then place it back under the heat source. This expedites the evaporation of the finish solvents. Then I keep repeating this application process. No sanding required because each subsequent coat establishes a chemical bond to the underlying coat. (The chemical bond is superior to the mechanical bond gained by sanding/abrasion.)

In the end I achieve a thick finish with the solvents evaporated, the surface dry to the touch, and the curing process proceeds normally. It's at this time I address any runs exactly as Ford describes: with a blade or sharp scraper. I do wait for the paint to cure completely and harden before I go about the task of washing/sanding/buffing or especially waxing.

My school of thought is that one should get a good build-up of finish before doing any knock-downs at all. I also see the paint-sand-paint-sand-paint cycle as one of the major reasons people bail altogether on solvent based finishes and choose the two-part "activated" (expensive) types. I mean they follow all the directions yet still end up with less than acceptable results. There's a time to comply with the rules and a time to throw them out the window. Of course this attitude may be too "old-school" for some folks.

This info may be too late to help on your tank but if you do any more items then I'd suggest giving it a try.

So Larry:
am I to understand in your opinion a thick coating of solvent based paint and clear coat is sufficient?
If so is lacquer a solvent based?
And if so would a few more coats of clear coat help?
I realize it is your opinion which I have respect for.

I also appreciate the input of others
I hope I'm not too politically correct.

Rick

[Larrym]

Miracle Paint As seen on TV??

Politically Correct??

We'd all be driving a Prius and liking it if we were meant to be that-a-way. (Where is the up-chuck smiley??)<head-desk>

am I to understand in your opinion a thick coating of solvent based paint and clear coat is sufficient?

Absolutely! Thicker is better. But don't take my word for it. Look at the frames and tanks that came with these bikes. Micro-thin? Just enough to fool the eye into seeing a uniform coat? So thin that something rubbing against it takes it down to bare metal??? So wimpy that after 3 years of oxidization penetrates down to the initial layer?? A finish that one can buff only 4 times before bare spots show up?

Nope.! These bikes came form across the sea with an original coating that was thick enough to last. Thing is that when we DIY's try this at home most folks buy into that "gotta sand between coats" and after doing that on one project they vow never to be that stupid again. That's why they're always looking for a miracle in a can which will free them of that "necessary" step yet result in that Diamond hard, durable mirror-like finish.

Do you think that even with cheap overseas labor prices that someone sands the frames/tanks down between applications? Nope, again. They do a variation of the "wet-on-wet" or "spray-bake-spray" technique I do at my shop to build up an adequate layer. (You should really see what I've seen done in the Arizona Sun: flawless, thick, and rock hard finishes done without a spray booth.)

If so is lacquer a solvent based?

Yup. It uses different carriers/solvents than the enamels. Just the ticket for the tank project. An excellent feature of lacquer is that it tends to dry faster and result in a harder more durable finish than regular "enamels". Translation: shorter wait between spraying it on being able to spray MORE on if you're doing the spray-bake-spray. I mean you can put so much on it's ridiculous in just one day. Be warned though, the solvents in lacquer (VOC's) can be a lot more harmful than regular paints. They also tend to have a lower flame/flash point so use LOTS of ventilation and no open flames.

And if so would a few more coats of clear coat help?

That's one of the cool things about finishing/re-finishing: More equals deeper finish equals longer lasting equals looks like you gotta reach your hand down an inch to get through the clear coat to touch the underlying colored paint. (Suh-WEET!!)

If you're at the clear-coating stage then don't wimp out. Make some sandwiches the night before, cancel all your calls, and spend the whole day laying it on-baking it-laying it on again. Helps to have a lot of stuff to finish cause sometimes when I've timed it right, just as I'm done with the last thing I've done its time to go back to the first one.

Key is to let the finish almost get dry to the touch before doing it again. Not still tacky but as close to feeling dry to the touch. (That's right: fingerprints in some unnoticeable area...)

BTW, I've held what you're doing in high regard ever since the "Piston Clip Video". Yeah...I know the video might have had it's flaws but the point is that you were giving back and sharing along the way from the very start.

Tough to not want that type of XS owner to succeed/get good results.

[crazy steve]

Absolutely! Thicker is better... An excellent feature of lacquer is that it tends to dry faster and result in a harder more durable finish than regular "enamels".

Larry, I'm going to have to mildly disagree with you on a few things....

Thicker is better... up to a point. Too thick, and the paint will have a tendency to chip easier, and when it does it can be harder to fix. I should also mention that any flaws in your color coat other than light orange peel will show through the clear.

As to lacquer, it's now very 'old school'. It's big advantage is it's the easiest paint to 'work'; repairing mistakes is a bunch easier than with most other paints due to it's fast dry time. But the downside is lacquer is also the most 'brittle' paint; it chips easier than any other type. It pretty much disappeared as an OEM automotive finish in the 50s. There's more than one kind out there too; your automotive touch-up lacquers are almost all acrylic-based now and the better choice. The 'hardware' store stuff is the old 'standard' lacquer and will chip if you look at it wrong.

If you're doing this out of rattlecans, lacquer will probably give the best results with the least skill. But save some paint for touch-up...

'78E original owner

[Rickrod3]

BTW, I've held what you're doing in high regard ever since the "Piston Clip Video". Yeah...I know the video might have had it's flaws but the point is that you were giving back and sharing along the way from the very start.

I renamed it to the shoulder piston clip video
Thanks for your support.

As to lacquer, it's now very 'old school'. It's big advantage is it's the easiest paint to 'work'; repairing mistakes is a bunch easier than with most other paints due to it's fast dry time. But the downside is lacquer is also the most 'brittle' paint; it chips easier than any other type. It pretty much disappeared as an OEM automotive finish in the 50s. There's more than one kind out there too; your automotive touch-up lacquers are almost all acrylic-based now and the better choice. The 'hardware' store stuff is the old 'standard' lacquer and will chip if you look at it wrong.

If you're doing this out of rattlecans, lacquer will probably give the best results with the least skill. But save some paint for touch-up...

Steve
Old school and when it comes to painting limited skill; that's me in a nut shell.
I wish I could find a hot tub that would take me back to 1979

Thanks to all of you for once again; helping me sort it out.
Rick

[T99Ford]

Laquer finishes are really shiny, but not real long lived. Laquer tends to crack on its own after not too many years. Another thing to keep in mind is that rattle can paint is one of the lower quality paints, not matter what brand, due to the nature of the propellants and solvents used that are necessary to make the spray can work. If you are looking for a truly quality paint job, you won't find the supplies in an aerosol can, period. That rule has stood for a long time. But, if you are looking for a pretty good job that is easy to do without some tool investment, well, there are lots that have done it
The sanding between coats can be actually pretty essential, as it helps to level each coat and reduce compounded flaws. For instance, a little orange peel (easy enough to have happen) will be greatly compounded of simply covered with more coats of paint. This is not to say that every coat should be sanded,but there are some advantages to sanding.

[T99Ford]

This is gun shot, about 8 coats of clear over base coat, and sanded between about 4 of the clear coats:

[Rickrod3]

Is that a 650?

I have a 79SF once I get the 11 a fully functional runner I'll get to work on it.
I would be tickled with a job like yours.
I find painting enjoyable so; I could see myself in the furture investing in some tools.
Looks real good
Rick

[crazy steve]

I would be tickled with a job like yours.
I find painting enjoyable so; I could see myself in the future investing in some tools.
Looks real good
Rick

The funny thing is, I found that a spray gun is easier to use compared to spray cans. I bought this kit from HF....

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94572

... and the smaller 'detail' gun is perfect for painting motorcycles. The full size gun puts too much paint down too fast for bikes (at least with me running it!). And these are HVLP guns, so you don't need a monster compressor to run them.

'78E original owner

[DenyP]

It can not be over emphasized that Lacquer and acrylic Lacquer must be clear coated with a two part clear. Brake fluid and todays gas will go right through it and really ruin your day.

Deny