Not enough clutch slippage!

[CatatonicBug]

I was going to post this as a reply to the poll about how to fix clutch slippage, but it began to sound too much like a thread hijack. So, here goes:

I've never had clutch slippage. In fact, I have the opposite problem. I have my clutch adjusted PAST the normal setting, and it still doesn't want to totally disengage the gears! Sometimes (not always), I feel a "clunk, clunk, clunk" when I stop at a light, just for a couple of seconds, where the gears are obviously still spinning and are barely hitting each other, trying to get some movement. I have absolutely no play in the clutch lever (there is actually tension on it all the time), and the screw at the throwout plate is only just barely backed off (1/16 turn). If I back off any more than that, the throwout plate doesn't disengage the gears enough to allow me to stay stopped without fighting the bike with the brakes.

The only thing I can think of that would allow this to happen is if my clutch cable has somehow become elastic, and stretches just a bit when I pull it. Is this possible, or might something else be happening to allow this?

[DGXSER]

If it has always done this since you re-assmebled it last, I wonder if you got the clutch basket seated properly in the gears, or the washers in the right places.

The clutch cable stretching is perhaps a possibility, but cable like that ussually stretches and does not spring back it just stays longer.

[psycoreefer]

Have you pulled the cover and taken a look? I had a friend that claimed his clutch was "gummed" up with some sort of goo. never did find out what caused it but it made his bike always want to creep even with the clutch pulled.

[CatatonicBug]

This has always been the case, and I have had the transmission apart at least 4 times. I've even replaced a broken pressure plate (I snapped one of the spring posts off) with no change in this issue. The last time I had the clutch cover off, I even inspected the throwout plate, looking for a worn bearing, or anything that might make it not actuate properly. I couldn't find anything internal that was out of spec.

[DiverRay]

The screw should be 1/4 turn out, IIRC. IF you added the "extra" plate to the clutch, the screw ends up almost INSIDE the clutch arm.
You WILL need to get that set properly BEFORE you can set the free-play at the clutch lever. The other thing is check that ALL the plates are FLAT! I know it's not much, but it's all I can do from way out here.

[CatatonicBug]

I know what it's supposed to be, but if I set it at 1/4 turn, it stays engaged. I had it set at 0 turns out, and that was working fine, but at the encouragement of some members here, I went as far as I could, and had to stop at 1/16 of a turn. Once I set that, I then played with the clutch lever, and in order to get it to disengage completely, and reliably, I had to completely eliminate all free-play, and tighten it even further than that. Even with all that, I still get the occasional clunking sounds at a stop. If I just barely start to let off the clutch lever (no longer pressing the lever against the grip), I start to roll forward.

[DiverRay]

Then something is STILL WRONG with the clutch system. You may want to look at it next time you have a chance to pull the cover. check for the three balls on the lever assembly, and the single ball between the push rod and the clutch are all in place.

[CatatonicBug]

Yep, did that already. I even took the balls out and inspected them for flat spots. It all checks out. It's almost as though the throwout plate is not travelling as far as it should when the cable is pulled, but I can't find anything about that mechanism that seems out of spec.

[3Phase]

It all checks out. It's almost as though the throwout plate is not travelling as far as it should when the cable is pulled, but I can't find anything about that mechanism that seems out of spec.

Okay, here are a few possibilities, a part diagram for your bike and I'll try not to sing out of key...:

The steels aren't warped?

The washers aren't mixed up?

The clutch boss parts aren't warped or out of order?


'81 Midnight Special diagram:-




Regards,

Scott

[79XS11F]

Is the push rod the right part and in good shape. Did you do ant trany shimming when you rebuilt the trany?
Rob

[DGXSER]

Another place to look is the push lever. I have seen it rotated before. It has notched sides that should align with the shaft it is on, but in loosening the locking nut it can slide off and get turned. BTDT.

[Ivan]

First things first. If you hear gears clunking with the clutch lever in while the transmission is in gear, then you have problems other than the clutch. The clutch doesn't shift the transmission in and out of gear, it only engages the drive to the transmission.

Now, if you are actually moving the pressure plate, which can be verified with the cover off and seeing the arm move in toward the engine while it turns, then my suggestion is that the clutch basket has worn and have notches in it, which would not allow the frictions move freely and they would hang up making the clutch grab. This could also happen on the internal splines the steels run on. I would check that out if you see the spiral motion of the clutch lever.

[WMarshy]

The screw should be 1/4 turn out, IIRC. IF you added the "extra" plate to the clutch, the screw ends up almost INSIDE the clutch arm.
You WILL need to get that set properly BEFORE you can set the free-play at the clutch lever. The other thing is check that ALL the plates are FLAT! I know it's not much, but it's all I can do from way out here.

So whats the big deal, why cant he just turn the screw in more, isnt that the purpose of it, adjustability? I agree there is still an underlying problem but...turn it in a little more so no clutch drag and run it...
If your hearing some clackin of gear with the clutch pulled in coming to a stop then I dont think that would be clutch related. Maybe middle drive or something more serious?

[CatatonicBug]

So whats the big deal, why cant he just turn the screw in more, isnt that the purpose of it, adjustability? I agree there is still an underlying problem but...turn it in a little more so no clutch drag and run it...

Well, I understand that by screwing that post in all the way, you basically make it so the clutch ALWAYS has some slip to it, even when you want it to be fully engaged.

The last time I had my clutch basket out, I looked it over for wear marks and anything out of allignment, and didn't see anything. Of course, since this was the first and only clutch basket I have ever seen in any detail, I didn't have much to compare it to.

If your hearing some clackin of gear with the clutch pulled in coming to a stop then I dont think that would be clutch related. Maybe middle drive or something more serious?

The clunking sound is only occasional, and only when I am JUST stopping, after having downshifted to 1st. It's as though the gears are still spinning, and the tips of one gear's teeth are slowly hitting against something else (another gear, or maybe something stationary). The noise stops quickly as the drive gears stop spinning, and don't continue while I'm moving.

[3Phase]

Well, I understand that by screwing that post in all the way, you basically make it so the clutch ALWAYS has some slip to it, even when you want it to be fully engaged.

Not necessarily, but if the adjuster screw is snug even while the clutch lever is released the throwout bearing will always be pushing against the pushrod . There's supposed to be a small gap when the lever is released so yours is doing the XS11 version of the famous Amsoil 3-ball wear test on the pushrod with the throwout bearing.

The last time I had my clutch basket out, I looked it over for wear marks and anything out of allignment, and didn't see anything. Of course, since this was the first and only clutch basket I have ever seen in any detail, I didn't have much to compare it to.

Okay, don't freak out or anything but clunks aren't good after you've already shifted into a gear. Tod may have it with a worn clutch basket making the plates bind instead of release. It doesn't take much for the plates to wear into the aluminum enough to bind.

Rob's probably right, too. If the throwout bearing has been held against the pushrod for a long time the pushrod and throwout bearing will wear along with the 3 ball bearings and the ramps they ride on. You wouldn't get enough 'throw' from the throwout bearing to fully disengage the clutch.

Grasping at straws here but the next time you tear into it if the clutch basket isn't worn maybe you can find someone to loan you a side cover with a known good throwout bearing to test?


Regards,

Scott