A real nut case....and a bolt to.

[tarzan]

I have one off of an XS750.I cut the frame up to make an engine stand.
If it is the same.I can cut it off and send it to you.Just pay shipping.
Heres pics,





The diameter is about .55 X .75.The thread length is about .7.

P.S.....I can take it to work and turn the end so you can grind you're piece off
and then put the new one flush and weld it on.

[XSokieSPECIAL]

Don, If you were here I could fix you up in about a hour with a mig welder, a 10mm bolt, and an angle grinder.

Cut that broken stud back behind the shoulder just the thickness of the bolt hex head.

Taper the stud right at the end kinda like a sharpened pencil with 2/3 or 3/4 of the tip cut off. This is for weld penetration.

Weld the bolt head to the stud. Grind the weld and bolt head to the desired configuration.

There ya go......FIXED.

I would have drawn you some pictures but I suck at computer graphics.

[trbig]

Honestly, the best option is going to be cutting that off and getting another one welded on. The shock can be wired up so it won't come off the stud for a short ride to wherever, you can leave the grab rail off until afterwards, and it can wait until the bike is regestered and legal to ride there. That isn't something that will keep it from running or getting everything else ready.

I have an XJ frame that can't be titled, and the studs are probably the same, just not in the exact same spot. I can't do it this week, but if you send me the measurements of it, I can measure mine. If the length is the same, it's yours for the asking.

You could try other methods, but none of them are going to be as permanent and/or as stout as putting another full stud back on.


Tod

[DGXSER]

Steve, that is another interesting approach to it.

Rick, If I could weld, it would be fixed already. But alas, I have neither the skill or the equipment. I tried my hand at TIG welding on aircraft components some years ago as a hands on educational thing when I worked at GEAE granted it was a one day crash course in welding and brazing, but everything I welded and or brazed failed every x-ray and hydraulic test miserably!!

Greg, yep I think that is the ticket to this thing. I can picture it clearly. I watch alot of pipe get welded together all the time. sometimes up to 60" diameter pipe or 20'X30' ductwork. Know all about beveling the edges for penetration. I know what the right welding technique looks like, and all the inspection criteria for pressure piping inspections, I just have no idea how to make that little stick or wire do that.

I have determined to call a welder a fellow XSive knows and let him weld the bolt on for me. As much as that feels like giving up for me, it will in the end give a better end product to the next owner, make me less of a PO.

[Yard Dogg]

I have one off of an XS750.I cut the frame up to make an engine stand.
If it is the same.I can cut it off and send it to you.Just pay shipping.
Heres pics,





The diameter is about .55 X .75.The thread length is about .7.

P.S.....I can take it to work and turn the end so you can grind you're piece off
and then put the new one flush and weld it on.

If it were me I would ask that you cut the bracket itself at the welds as close to the tubing as you can. It would be easier to weld it back up to his frame and the bolt would maintain it's shear strength. Cool of you to offer the part to him.

[cywelchjr]

You know, I had thought of something like that also Tom. Reality is that this grab bar has already been butchered by the PO, he drilled two holes though it to use for mounting holes for the crappy rack he had on the bike.

In fact, my idea was to make the hole/slot in the grab bar larger and use a shoulder nut sort of to give more thread depth and still hold the grab bar at the same point for symmetry.

As I write this I had a new thought to grind that shoulder down and make a little smaller threaded stud out of it, then take a 10mm 1.5 shoulder bolt and drill and tap it to go over that smaller dia thread. Sort of a reverse heli-coil idea. Only problem is I have tried twice today to drill and tap a 10mm bolt and both times the tap snapped off on me. Even used the drill bit that came with the tap and lots of pb blaster the second time around. (where is the smiley for I give up!!).

I saw at least one other offer, but I have a special parts frame that has those good on it. I'm seriously considering butchering the frame to make an engine frame, which would mean no use for those studs. I'm not sure how I could cut those off, maybe I'd have to buy a cutoff tool to do it with? Been wanting one of those anyways, so an excuse is always welcome. I would also not turn down someone who came by with the tools to cut it off either as I'm way over budget for bike stuff what with the replacement forks and the XJ shocks.

So, I might have trouble getting SWMBO to let me get the cutoff tool as much as I would like it, and it might endanger the sander I want to get for my upcoming painting project.

[DGXSER]

Tod, you posted same time I did and I did not see that earlier. Thanks much for the offer.

I studied this beast many times this weekend. Many ways. Not being a welder, I am not certain where and how you cut that stud out or off back to the frame. Seems you want it inside the frame for the shock mounting strength.

That being said, It seems as if I use the method of cutting the stud in the area where the grab bar mounts, it will retain all of its needed strength to hold the shock. The welding process should not make that metal brittle that far from the weld point on a small weld like this. So if I cut it off say 1/4" further back than where is snapped and cut the head off a 10-1.25 bolt or even a 10-1.5 bolt, and have that welded to the remaining stud and ground smooth, what would be so different than cutting the entire stud all the back to the frame? I am missing something here I guess. I see this as retaining the full factory strength for supporting the shock. The grab bar would be supported partly if not mostly by the factory part. I would not expect that the weld to fail in tension or strain to the rigors of bouncing around putting side pressure on the grab bar and the shock, and the grab bar will not put any real shear to it unless the bike is on its side or back in which case that stud is the least of the worries. And again, the grab bar is pushing mostly on the stock stud. Happy to see what I am missing.

[yamtom]

Tod has it!!

Deeg,

If it were me and my bike, I would definitely do what Tod said, but I have three muffler shops within three miles to do the welding. The welding method you want to use, most recently here, may very well work, and even if it does fail, Tods way can still be worked. I can also get behind your original way, to file out the slot on the bar, and use a shoulder nut. Since you dont have easy access to a welder, I would try that first. Are those grab bars , hard to find elsewhere ? It wouldnt seem too problematic to find one somewhere if you do muff it up. Tom

[fabricgator]

I looked at mine before posting something...

It looks like on my 79 special, that it may be a threaded stud. My suggestion was going to be if you could line bore it, tap, and replace it with a bolt or after, remove the head and replace the head with a cap nut.

Then I went to look at mine, I see at the base of the threaded stud, a minor machined groove where it may just be a threaded stud.

Didn't you have some threads sticking out? Could you get a pair of nuts on there and lock them together to try to remove it?

The pictures I just looked at, it does not look like a threaded stud, so I just may need to have a crystal navel installed....
That way I could look out occasionally, and see where I was going!

[crazy steve]

...I studied this beast many times this weekend. Many ways. Not being a welder, I am not certain where and how you cut that stud out or off back to the frame. Seems you want it inside the frame for the shock mounting strength....

If you're planning on doing any welding for a repair, have I got a deal for you...

First, how you fixed for tools? Do you have a grinder and a 3/8 drillmotor? A large round file? Hacksaw? Or can you borrow these? Can you afford to buy a 11/16" hole saw and arbor? If the answer is yes, here's the way to fix this right.

From looking at mine, what this appears to be is a non-threaded rod 14mm in diameter by about 2.125" long (including the part that goes into the frame). This part also has a .1" flange machined on it .75" from the outer end. The threaded part is machined on the end; I assume on your Special this is longer than what's on a standard, so I would need this length. Maybe someone can verify these measurements their Special. Now, cutting one off another frame for a replacement can be done, but getting the old one out without destroying the fit for the 'factory replacement' would be a b***h.

My solution? A 11/16" hole saw will fit over the stud, so the stud itself will keep the holesaw centered. Saw through the flange (you'll probably have to grind/saw the stud shorter as you go to allow the holesaw to go all the way) to the inside of the frame. The broken mount is now out, and you have a 11/16" hole. The flange appears to held on with a couple of heavy tack welds, so grind those off and remove it. The broken mount is now out. For a replacement, you need a new stud with the same flange/shock mount/threaded stud, but with a larger diameter inside the frame to match the new hole. I'll make this part for you on my lathe so all you'll have to do is slip it in, weld the two sides and you're done. Cost? How about FREE; just pay for shipping. A bit of work, but not much more than trying to scab something onto the broken end, and a better repair.

'78E original owner

[Larrym]

Look at the Hat Your Wearing.

DGXSER,

Lot's of good ideas presented thus far. Especially inventive cause you've added the restriction of no welding capability in your skill set or tools. It's been a great exercise in "How would one fix this if you lived on a remote island with very limited tools and no access to a professional welder." As someone who really has lived on an island where there weren't welders I would trust to do the job properly and in a timely manner, I offer this: The service/parts to do the job right really are available.

I would point out that the mount is load bearing: the weight of the bike is supported at least partially by that shock/side. The engineers in white labcoats determined that the mount should be tabbed/mounted to the frame by as close to a permanent method available: welded. Part of the engineering process had to explore alternate methods or fastening systems and obviously they chose doing it the way they did. I, myself would alter that IFF (if and only if) the proposed method was mechanically superior to the original.

You're an engineer. That means that you already know that sometimes the "bean-counters" are totally in favor of taking shortcuts in order to reduce costs. In that very nearsighted way they might be doing a good service. However as an engineer you know that shortcuts can be made in any/all of four areas:

Materials, Methods, Tools, or Personnel.

I think you've already seen the results of projects where the project manager was swayed by the bean-counters and then decided to over-rule the objections of the engineers who were following the engineering rules.

Plus one more for the "find and utilize a competent welder" crowd.

[fredintoon]

If at first you don't succeed - - -

Only problem is I have tried twice today to drill and tap a 10mm bolt and both times the tap snapped off on me. Even used the drill bit that came with the tap and lots of pb blaster the second time around. (where is the smiley for I give up!!).

Hi DGXSER,
- - - Try, try again.
but this time use a tap drill that's a few thousandths bigger.
Machinerys Handbook says M10 tap drill is 8.5mm or 8.6mm. Next nearest larger inch drills are 11/32" and 23/64"
Drill the bolt right through so there's no chance of the tap bottoming out.
PB Blaster IS NOT A TAPPING FLUID.
Use Taptite or other proper tapping fluid.
Keep turning the tap 3/4 of a turn in then 1/2 of a turn back to break up the steel shavings.
If the tap feels like it's tightening up, wind it right out and blow the shavings off before starting again.
Um, perhaps a shorter tap wrench?

[XSokieSPECIAL]

Well......

.......now that we have this thoroughly over analized..............How about just some balin' wire and zip ties?........

LOL

[DGXSER]

Steve, that is a great offer, thank you for your kindness.

Being an engineer, I have analyzed this over and over. (by definition, overanalyzed ) What I keep coming back to is this, the shock mount is the true structural aspect of the stud. The way it attaches to the frame is the most important aspect of this stud becoming a structural member. So, not weakening that, is the biggest key. So why screw with what is there if IT is not broken.

The seat grab rail is not a structural component of the frame, lots of memebers remove it all the time.The acorn nut is just there to keep the shock form sliding off the shoulder it sits on. The shock really puts very little if any side to side stress on that bolt. Mine has been off for a loong time. I've put at least 70 miles on the bike with nothing to keep it form coming off but that grab rail which is at least 1/4" away from the shock. And it has not slid over one mm yet. Sooo, my theory is, if I can find someone who is a good welder and knows how to get good penetration and not over heat the metal, then it will surely be the safest approach to just weld a longer threaded piece onto what is there.

It is amazing how well we can come up with so many ways to skin a cat though (no offense to our moderatoress but that is one of my fav sayings. )

[XSokieSPECIAL]

Yup..

..I spelled analyzed wrong, guess I should be drinkin' Guinness.

That was my thought also Don. All that threaded part does is hold it all together, no load bearing stress.

I.E. balin' wire and zip ties.