Announcement

**MrFreeze5** · 03-03-2010, 02:07 PM

So long as they are at the proper height and distance apart, it shouldnt matter. Depending on your city, some places that do inspections might fail it if the inspector is having a bad day, but otherwise, Ive never heard of it being an issue.

**psycoreefer** · 03-03-2010, 02:20 PM

Check your local vehicular code for motorcycles.
Does it say that your turn signals must be "DOT approved"?
If it does then you could get burned with a ticket or failed inspection.

I don't think an insurance company would have much luck burning you on non-dot signals.

**crazy steve** · 03-03-2010, 02:38 PM

Well, first you need to understand that 'DOT Legal' is a relative term. If an item is DOT-approved, that just means that it meets certain standards. Some of the DOT requirements pertain to safety of equipment (brake parts, tires, etc), some to visibility (lighting), some to operator/passenger safety (helmets, seat belts, etc). Any motor vehicle sold in the US is required to meet these standards if sold for use on public roads. And don't forget, these are federal standards.

BUT, that doesn't always mean that your state requirements are the same. You need to check your local motor vehicle laws to see what they want. There's a pretty wide variation here, and in some states turn signals aren't even required on motorcycles, so whether or not they're 'DOT-legal' will make absolutely no difference.

How pissy can an insurance company get about having non-DOT items on a vehicle? IMHO, if it's 'legal' at the state level, they can't deny you coverage as those state laws are what they operate under.

But you do need to check; local regs can be found online...

'78E original owner

**CatatonicBug** · 03-03-2010, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by marshall View Post

If DOT is required for your bike to be legal, it bothers me that they probably sell tons of these signals to unassuming people who could potentially get screwed later.

There are places all over that sell things for vehicles that area actually illegal for street use. Like the plastic covers for license plates, license plate frames that block the state name, and (in CA, anyway) any blue "accent" lighting (the only vehicle allowed to use blue lights of ANY kind in CA are police). There are carbs that are for "racing use only" and mufflers that are marked with similar warnings. You just have to decide how close to the edge of "legal" you want to be.

I would definitely talk to an inspector and find out what your local rules are though, and maybe what the rules are for any place you are thinking to travel through.

**psycoreefer** · 03-03-2010, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by CatatonicBug View Post

There are places all over that sell things for vehicles that area actually illegal for street use. Like the plastic covers for license plates, license plate frames that block the state name, and (in CA, anyway) any blue "accent" lighting (the only vehicle allowed to use blue lights of ANY kind in CA are police). There are carbs that are for "racing use only" and mufflers that are marked with similar warnings. You just have to decide how close to the edge of "legal" you want to be.

I would definitely talk to an inspector and find out what your local rules are though, and maybe what the rules are for any place you are thinking to travel through.

This brings up a question i've thought of before but never asked, if your bike is legal in your home state (where you live and where your registration is from) and your ride across the border do you have to conform to their laws, or do you only have to worry about your home state?

This is gray to me because I can think of examples both ways, I don't have to worry about my DL being valid or smog rules, whatever my home state says is good is OK. On the other hand if I'm carrying a hand gun I have to abide by whatever state I'm in's rules on that, and you have to obey helmet laws in the state your currently in.

Maybe that should be its own topic?

**marshall** · 03-04-2010, 09:09 AM

Good point - I have no idea how that stuff works. Seems it's "gray" enough that if you've got something questionable on your bike, you're putting your fate in the hands of any LEO that sees you. Harassment is legal in all 50 states.

Well, I found this website with some MI motorcycle regulations but it would take me forever to sift through... I have the feeling I'll be ordering some non-DOT signals soon...

http://www.michigan.gov/sos/0,1607,7...353---,00.html

**psycoreefer** · 03-04-2010, 10:45 AM

Your motorcycle must have the following equipment, which must be in good condition: front and rear wheel brakes, headlight, taillight, stop-light, muffler, horn, rear-view mirror, and permanently attached seat.

Signaling is both a courtesy and a legal requirement. Before stopping, turning, or changing lanes, see if it is safe. Then, communicate to other drivers by giving the required signal, either by using your left hand and arm or an electrical turn signal device. Start your signal at least 100 feet before you turn. In heavy traffic or on freeways, signal sooner so drivers behind you have time to change their speed or position. Make sure your turn signal light has stopped blinking after you have turned.

257.697 Signal lamps or devices; exemption.
Sec. 697. (a) A motor vehicle may be equipped and when required under this chapter shall be equipped
with the following signal lamps or devices:
(1) A stop lamp on the rear which shall emit a red or amber light and which shall be actuated upon
application of the service or foot brake and which may but need not be incorporated with a tail lamp.
(2) A lamp or lamps or mechanical signal device which conveys an intelligible signal or warning to
another driver approaching from the rear.
(b) A stop lamp shall be capable of being seen and distinguished from a distance of 100 feet to the rear
both during normal sunlight and at nighttime and a signal lamp or lamps indicating intention to turn shall be
capable of being seen and distinguished during daytime and nighttime from a distance of 100 feet both to the
front and rear. When a vehicle is equipped with a stop lamp or other signal lamps, the lamp or lamps shall at
all times be maintained in good working condition. A stop lamp or signal lamp shall not project a glaring or
dazzling light.

OK so there are the highlights, michigan does not require motorcycles to have turn signals. If they do then they must be visible from the front or rear for at least 100 feet. If they don't you must use hand signals.

No where does it say DOT certified.

Order what you want and call it good, make sure you can see them from 100 feet.

**CatatonicBug** · 03-04-2010, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by psycoreefer View Post

This brings up a question i've thought of before but never asked, if your bike is legal in your home state (where you live and where your registration is from) and your ride across the border do you have to conform to their laws, or do you only have to worry about your home state?

This is gray to me because I can think of examples both ways, I don't have to worry about my DL being valid or smog rules, whatever my home state says is good is OK. On the other hand if I'm carrying a hand gun I have to abide by whatever state I'm in's rules on that, and you have to obey helmet laws in the state your currently in.

Maybe that should be its own topic?

The emmissions stuff is different, as they can't test it on the side of the road, but the equipment on the bike/cage must meet the local (where you are currently pulled over on the side of the road) laws, no matter where it's registered. The cop makes the decision about whether to ticket/warn you for anything he/she finds.

The same goes for moving laws. Here in MO, you have to signal 300 feet before a turn, and you cannot drive on the shoulder to make a right-hand turn. You also cannot pull into the intersection and wait for oncoming traffic to clear when making a left turn. Took me a while to get used to that one, coming from CA. People there honk at you if you don't pull into the intersection and wait!

**TomRodgers** · 03-04-2010, 11:28 AM

It is always easier to get forgiveness than it is to get permission....besides....i know you sold the bike to somebody...THEY put the lights on it...and you bought it back.....it was that way when you got it!!! When was the last time the 'inspector' took a photo of the bike before getting tags for it!!!! how the flock would they know!!!

**crazy steve** · 03-04-2010, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by CatatonicBug View Post

...but the equipment on the bike/cage must meet the local (where you are currently pulled over on the side of the road) laws, no matter where it's registered. The cop makes the decision about whether to ticket/warn you for anything he/she finds....

I'm not so sure about that; I think if you pushed that, you would win. This has something to do with restraint of interstate trade. There's been at least two cases where a car manufacturer built something that met federal standards but ran afoul of state regs. The first was the '57 Imperial, the first american car offered with 4 headlights. These were 'federal' legal, but some states didn't accept the smaller lights as legal. If I remember right, Chrysler agreed to be the 'test case' and the result was that for '58 they were legal everywhere. Another was the '67 Shelby GT500; these came with 'driving lights' mounted in the grill. There were two versions; one had the lights in the outboard ends of the grill, the other (Carroll's 'preferred' styling) had them in the center. The latter weren't legal in some states due to regs on how close together they could be, and the 'correct' version was sold where needed. But owners who got ticketed for driving the 'wrong' version into a state beat the tickets, and the feds ended up coming out with a new standard.

'78E original owner

**CatatonicBug** · 03-04-2010, 12:39 PM

True, but most folks aren't going to make a "federal case" out of a fix-it ticket. Especially on a 30-y/o bike.

**crazy steve** · 03-04-2010, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by CatatonicBug View Post

True, but most folks aren't going to make a "federal case" out of a fix-it ticket. Especially on a 30-y/o bike.

Geez, so many people here complain about the 'guvmint' pushing them around and when you've got 'em dead to rights, you let it slide....

'78E original owner

**cywelchjr** · 03-04-2010, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by CatatonicBug View Post

True, but most folks aren't going to make a "federal case" out of a fix-it ticket. Especially on a 30-y/o bike.

Actually I'm pretty sure at this point the laws are pretty clear that the vehicle has to meet the standards for the location it is registered and garaged in. Some states require both front and rear plates, some only the rear, you cannot be ticketed by a two plate state for only having one state if your state is a one plate state. The issue I believe it that it's well established that federal law trumps state law, so DOT legal lights are of course legal everywhere. If they are not DOT approved, they may or may not give you trouble (in CA if you are required to have a brake and light inspection (such as if your bike is stolen and recovered), you better have DOT turn, brake and headlights on the bike).

**MrFreeze5** · 03-04-2010, 01:09 PM

Ive dealt with that situation before. I am a big 4x4 and Jeep fan, and have spent time in Moab. They like to ticket people for things that are illegal there, but are not illegal here. Forgive me, but Ive forgotten the specific charges, it wasnt my rig, it was a friends, and its been a while. But I have heard of this happening to multiple people around here.

He got pulled over for some violation on his truck, fenders, or bumper height or something. He got the ticket and fine for Moab and a court date weeks later he could come back and fight it. But they know that most people will just pay the ticket instead of coming back to fight the it. He paid the ticket even though he followed the law of his city.

Technically, the vehicle must fit the regulations for the area that it is registered, but that doesnt mean you cant get screwed in another state.

Announcement

Non-DOT Turn Signals

Non-DOT Turn Signals

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment