I guess I'm done now

[TopCatGr58]

Just one quick note about that 8mm bolt on the bottom that you put back in, nobody mentioned that you need to put a dab of locktite on it, blue, so that when you do that unintentional wheelie, the fork lowers don't go flying off the ends of your upper tubes!
T.C.

[cywelchjr]

Hi Cy,
dunno about that 20 minute thing; it'd take me longer than that just to remove the front wheel. And that's after I found my wrenches.

Well, I have to admit that you were right. It took considerably more than 20 minutes, and the wheel was already off when I started.

I'll tell you again how to take the air caps off, which you really should do because there's 30 years-worth of crud in there needs cleaning out. (And on the replacement forks too, I'd bet.)

Well, I did change the oil on the new forks, and what came out didn't look too bad compared to the other forks I've done in the last few years. So I filled them back up with 15w silkolene and put everything together (took about 3 hours by the time I was done). Everything seems to be doing well so far. We'll see how the fork oil looks in about a year when I change it again.

In the meantime I'm going to get those old ones apart and go through them with a fine tooth comb, and then put them back together fully rebuilt/reconditioned. Then I'll have ready to go spares if I need them.

BTW, I went with the 15w because I have seen many recommend it for those with heavy fairing on the front. Since mine is NOT on the back , I figure that means it's on the front. So far these seem to be working quite smoothly. We'll see how the behave when I add air pressure to them (no bicycle pump and I hear it's a BAD idea to use a full on compressor because of the small volume for the air, something to do with blowing the seals? ).

[cywelchjr]

Just one quick note about that 8mm bolt on the bottom that you put back in, nobody mentioned that you need to put a dab of locktite on it, blue, so that when you do that unintentional wheelie, the fork lowers don't go flying off the ends of your upper tubes!
T.C.

I know that nobody mentioned it, but IIRC (manuals not in front of me right now) them manual does have that in there. So, when I break them down I will do that. For now when I did the new ones I didn't open anything up, I did both the drain and fill through the drain hole with them upside down while I filled. That went really well and was fast and easy. It may well be worth doing it that way in the future just to save the pain of removing and replacing the caps.

[Larrym]

Unsolved Mysteries

Cy,

Good to know that things are progressing along well. I've got a question that stumped me for quite a while and possibly you might have the answer there right in front of you.

The Back-story:

My first XS was a standard with a Windjammer fairing. It was a non-runner and so I did all the necessary work to get it running/roadworthy. Then I found that I hated the way it handled. To me, it was like riding a bicycle with one of those wire baskets on the front overloaded with stuff: heavy and awkward. The XS front end plunged down during any braking whatsoever. The bike didn't want to hold a straight line either.

I addressed the steering bearings twice but it didn't help the tracking issue. The forks didn't leak so I never messed with the oil level or viscosity. In the end I suspected that the PO added the fairing without swapping the front springs for heavier ones like it says to do in the "fairing installation manual." The guy was notorious for doing stuff like that: bolting on this or that without regard for how it would affect performance. He was after looks only and to heck with any consequences.

I didn't change the springs either. Nor did I remove the fairing and see if that helped the handling. I sold the bike. So the mystery remains unsolved.

So......Now that you've swapped out your front forks with another pair:

Did the original forks have the HD springs?
Do the replacement forks have the regular or HD springs?
Is there a noticeable change in the handling/braking dive?
Does the front end sit lower/same than it did before?

My Special is naked now and I like it. But I still wonder sometimes if I bailed on my first XS cause I just don't like fairings or cause the PO didn't install the right springs??

TIA

[cywelchjr]

Cy,

Good to know that things are progressing along well. I've got a question that stumped me for quite a while and possibly you might have the answer there right in front of you.

The Back-story:

My first XS was a standard with a Windjammer fairing. It was a non-runner and so I did all the necessary work to get it running/roadworthy. Then I found that I hated the way it handled. To me, it was like riding a bicycle with one of those wire baskets on the front overloaded with stuff: heavy and awkward. The XS front end plunged down during any braking whatsoever. The bike didn't want to hold a straight line either.

I addressed the steering bearings twice but it didn't help the tracking issue. The forks didn't leak so I never messed with the oil level or viscosity. In the end I suspected that the PO added the fairing without swapping the front springs for heavier ones like it says to do in the "fairing installation manual." The guy was notorious for doing stuff like that: bolting on this or that without regard for how it would affect performance. He was after looks only and to heck with any consequences.

I didn't change the springs either. Nor did I remove the fairing and see if that helped the handling. I sold the bike. So the mystery remains unsolved.

So......Now that you've swapped out your front forks with another pair:

Did the original forks have the HD springs?
Do the replacement forks have the regular or HD springs?
Is there a noticeable change in the handling/braking dive?
Does the front end sit lower/same than it did before?

My Special is naked now and I like it. But I still wonder sometimes if I bailed on my first XS cause I just don't like fairings or cause the PO didn't install the right springs??

TIA

Well, I still have not been able to open the original forks, and I didn't open the new ones, but, these are air over oil systems which makes them adjustable for load by increasing air pressure. Standard pressure is 6.4 lbs, I did find when mine leaked that the front end dropped a bit and was more divey. So, the new ones didn't have air pressure in them until just about 20 mins ago, I went and got a tire pump (manual) with digital gauge on it to add air. It's a bit tricky, but I put 20 lbs in there and the front went up an eyeball estimated 2-3 inches. Much less dive, and then might be a bit too stiff now, but I'll work on tuning them over the next week or so. I did find that the 15w oil did help the diving problem a LOT. So that combined with the right pressure (once I find it) should get it riding correctly. Of course bets are off if it was a 78 or 79 standard as they don't have air for adjustment.

That said, I have never ridden an 11 naked (the bike or me) but I have ridden my 400 both naked and with a fairing and with the heavier springs (which is has) it rides pretty well with a fairing and it's actually a bit too stiff without. But I would say that mine rides pretty good, and I expect it to get better when my XJ shocks get here and I get them installed and dialed in.

BTW, tracking sounds more like the fairing was not installed square on the bike. The diving would be the springs and oil, and everything I have read says that increasing the oil weight can help that a lot. Mine actually handle wind pretty well too, as a properly installed frame mounted fairing can really take a load off the rider wind wise, while a fork mounted fairing can catch the wind and make things worse. JMHO and YMMV.

[1st bike]

That said, I have never ridden an 11 naked (the bike or me).

you know you want to try it!! just once, I'm sure the neighbors won't call the cops.......

[Larrym]

"All I Need Is The Air That I Breathe...."

Thanks Cy.

The "Air" adjustable feature sure has its value. My former XS didn't have that option so "springamus Swappamis" was the only way to accomplish a change in height/load.

The fairing was frame mounted and my very first bike with that feature. One of these days I'll have to revisit the XS Fairing/Naked issue by taking a test ride on both in the same day.

Have fun on the "verification Ride."

[bikerphil]

Just a note: The air assist forks have straight wound springs (except XJ) which are prone to diving without the use of air pressure. The 78-9 Standards are non-air forks, which use a progressive wound spring which won't dive as much as a straight wound spring. Spacers can be added to the top of your spring to lessen diving. Also, raising the oil level and/or increasing the viscosity will help with diving problems.

[Geezer]

Just one quick note about that 8mm bolt on the bottom that you put back in, nobody mentioned that you need to put a dab of locktite on it, blue, so that when you do that unintentional wheelie, the fork lowers don't go flying off the ends of your upper tubes!
T.C.

In 20 years turning wrenches I've never done that and I've never had a problem. I do use a dab of silicone sealer to prevent leaks.

Geezer

[Larrym]

Mea Culpa... Maxima Mea Culpa

Just a note: The air assist forks have straight wound springs (except XJ) which are prone to diving without the use of air pressure. The 78-9 Standards are non-air forks, which use a progressive wound spring which won't dive as much as a straight wound spring. Spacers can be added to the top of your spring to lessen diving. Also, raising the oil level and/or increasing the viscosity will help with diving problems.

You're Really making me feel stupid for owning an XS and NOT even knowing about or using Channel 11 at the time.

I didn't know....All I had was a Clymers Manual and my prior experiences with non-fairing bikes. I was on a remote Island at the time too.....

We seriously need an Extreme Angst or Wailing-Out-Loud smiley added to the available selection: There's a space right there for it.

Would make their grid look more symmetrical/geometrically rounded out.

[TopCatGr58]

In 20 years turning wrenches I've never done that and I've never had a problem. I do use a dab of silicone sealer to prevent leaks.

Geezer

Well, Geezer,

That "dab" of silicone sealer probably acts similar to locktite, keeping that bolt from turning loose on the end of the tube! I just don't think I would trust it not coming loose with just "good-n-tight", and that it doesn't use a lockwasher! YMMV!

Hey Larry, find me a "wailing wall" smiley, PM me, I'll send you my email, send it to me, and I'll see if I can find a way to add it!

T.C.

[Geezer]

Well, Geezer,

That "dab" of silicone sealer probably acts similar to locktite, keeping that bolt from turning loose on the end of the tube! I just don't think I would trust it not coming loose with just "good-n-tight", and that it doesn't use a lockwasher! YMMV!
T.C.

Try an air wrench, then they won't come loose.

Geezer

[Larrym]

It's a Guy Thing???

Well, Geezer,

Hey Larry, find me a "wailing wall" smiley, PM me, I'll send you my email, send it to me, and I'll see if I can find a way to add it!

T.C.

Thanks TC. That's a very kind offer but I think I should pass on it.

I kinda figure that even if that "wailing-out-loud" smiley were there I would prob'ly use it only as a first reaction to something. I mean I'm a guy and so although initially I'd feel angst, in the end I be ticked off.

That's a much better emotional reaction cause when I get mad at something I get motivated to do something and correct the problem. Then I'm not mad anymore.

Besides, the best whimpering and crying smileys are on Oprah's forums. She likely wouldn't take kindly to us using them without her consent.

[motoman]

fork oil change

Cywelchjr, good choice using not only 15w but Silcolene to boot. Problem over the years of use is the small orfices somewhat enlarge from fluid wear, very little , but enough that dampening is compromised. The stock springs seem to be the culprip, but not always true. To shorten up your trial and error on the fronts with addition of air pressure, run 5-9psi. If fairing is heavily loaded, rest of bike heavily loaded combined with interstate speeds, run 9-14psi. Don't ignore rear shock settings either. Ideally, front and rear should compress fairly equal when straddleing bike, locking front brake, and coming down on seat withyour weight. Front and rear should "feel" like they are compressing at a similar rate. That's a starting procedure initially for suspension settings, not to be confused with "sag" setting. That just comes from many years of moto-cross racing, and seems to take alot of the guessing out of street applications too. At interstate speeds, don't be afraid to have things set on the stiff side, as dips, rode irregularities that upset suspensions will keep it tracking straight if a bit stiff, but still using alot of suspension travel......kind of a trial and error, plus ride preferance......hope to see ya at the Santa Margarita KOA in June!......ride safe, Brant.