Major '80 XS11 MS Renovation; initial questions

[marshall]

Hi,

This article got me thinking about making some changes to my trusty '80 XS11 Midnight Special:
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/20...m-transformed/

I really like the overall look, even if there are a couple things I would definitely do differently. My bike has about 34,000 miles on it, about 10,000 of which I'm responsible for. I take good care of it and it runs just fine, although someone more experienced with these bikes may or may not agree with me. It's been great as a long-distance hauler, with a loop out to the west coast that I did this summer (and posted about). Anyways, inspiration struck the other day and I ran outside to start taking my bike apart piece by piece and transferring it into my basement where I can work on it (I'm in college, no garage). Here are some initial questions I've been thinking about. I know there are probably a thousand posts on this stuff already, so please refrain from the age-old "use the search function!" No doubt I will once I get time, just looking for quick opinions here. Thanks for your input!



1) My seat is in terrible shape. Think I can reupholster it myself, having no prior experience? Rough idea of time/cost involved? Common alternatives?
2) Easiest order in which to remove the engine, transmission, drive shaft and final gear from the frame/swingarm? I'm stripping the frame down to nothing to paint it, just wondering what the easiest/most natural separation points are to break things up.
3) I'd like to switch to 4 individual carb intake filters. Is the general consensus that this increases or decreases performance? Is the carb tuning involved going to be more than I can handle on my own? Good source for filters? What do you do with the crankcase ventilation tube that normally runs into the intake box (at least I think that's what that big tube is)?
4) Does anyone make claims of phenomenal ride improvement with aftermarket shocks/springs in the rear? I'll consider an upgrade if they really make a difference.
5) I definitely want to replace my brake lines, at least the front, with stainless steel lines. My current ones are disintegrating from the inside, leading to a "bumpy/sticky" feeling that is totally unsettling. Economical source for replacements?
6) I'm getting rid of the swept-back handlebars in favor of something straighter, lower and more forward. Is this a common upgrade, and is there a particular bar that seems to work well?
7) I dropped my bike this summer and put a couple shallow (~.5in) but wide (2in) dents on the upper left portion of the tank. Anyone recommend a filler to fill in the dent? I might try taking it to an auto collision place to see if they can suction them out first...
8) This is mostly an aesthetic renovation, but it feels like as long as I'm taking everything apart, I might as well do a basic rebuild of the engine. However I have the feeling that might put me over the edge time-wise; this is basically something I can spend 6 hours per week on, and I want to have it done before summer. If the motor seems fine but has 33k on it, do you think it's worth taking it apart? I'll post my most recent compression test results when I find the notebook I wrote them down in, but they didn't seem out of the ordinary.
9) Replace or just repack the wheel bearings after 33k miles?

Of course, I probably can't do all of this given my time and money limits, but they're all worth thinking about at this stage.

Cheers,
Marshall

[DGXSER]

1) My seat is in terrible shape. Think I can reupholster it myself, having no prior experience? Rough idea of time/cost involved? Common alternatives?

Not to sound to typical here but, all depends on your experience and abilities, along with what quality of end product is acceptable to you. Common alternative is to buy a cover.

2) Easiest order in which to remove the engine, transmission, drive shaft and final gear from the frame/swingarm? I'm stripping the frame down to nothing to paint it, just wondering what the easiest/most natural separation points are to break things up.

Remove the FD, then remove the swingarm. After you remove everything else, and draina ll the fluids form everything, lay cardboard down and you can lay the bike on its side and pull the frame off the engine. Might be easier than lifting the engine out of the frame.

3) I'd like to switch to 4 individual carb intake filters. Is the general consensus that this increases or decreases performance? Is the carb tuning involved going to be more than I can handle on my own? Good source for filters? What do you do with the crankcase ventilation tube that normally runs into the intake box (at least I think that's what that big tube is)?

Not sure there is such a thing as a consensus on the performance issue. Most switch because they hate pulling the carbs with the stock airbox in place. Carb tuning, again, what is your ability and talent level? Nothign on these bikes is to difficult to do, just takes tiem and patience and asking questions of the group here when needed. As to the breather tube, you can do nothing with it, let it sit there, or put a filter on it.

6) I'm getting rid of the swept-back handlebars in favor of something straighter, lower and more forward. Is this a common upgrade, and is there a particular bar that seems to work well?

I found a set at ym local dealership for $30 bucks that are identical dimensions to a set of Goldwing bars I like.

8) This is mostly an aesthetic renovation, but it feels like as long as I'm taking everything apart, I might as well do a basic rebuild of the engine. However I have the feeling that might put me over the edge time-wise; this is basically something I can spend 6 hours per week on, and I want to have it done before summer. If the motor seems fine but has 33k on it, do you think it's worth taking it apart? I'll post my most recent compression test results when I find the notebook I wrote them down in, but they didn't seem out of the ordinary.

at 33,000 that engine is just getting broke in. Unless it is showing troubles, adjust the valves and ride that thing!

9) Replace or just repack the wheel bearings after 33k miles?

Those are cheap and easy enough you may as well replace IMO.

Good luck and enjoy!!

[Pat Kelly]

I got a decent seat cover for my LG from JC Whitney. It's not an exact replica, but it's decent. Stock MNS seats have double row stitching and the 'step' from driver to passenger is steeper (original has a wedge of foam on the cover to provide the different profile).
Pod air filters will provide more filter surface. They will also allow you to hear the air intake into the engine. They make carb removal easier. The airbox supports the rear of the carbs so they're not hanging from the intake boots. There's a hole in the middle of the bike that is filled by the airbox. The bike and engine was designed for that airbox. You lose the large gold panels on the sides of the airbox (black with gold trim is the MNS trademark).
New springs front and rear will be an improvement over the 30 year old springs. Progressive (brand) springs in front allow you to not use air anymore. Progressive (brand) shocks in back are a good upgrade. If by "ride improvement" you mean comfort then new springs will help. If you meant handling then get a Tkat forkbrace (search the forum for Tkat).
SS brake lines seem to be running $100 to 150. Parts n More front brake master cylinder is a nice (black) unit, I have one on both my bikes.
I don't like the buckhorn bars either. I got some "superbike bars" off Ebay for $10.
Both my XS's have about 60,000 miles on them and the bottom end(s) seem fine. The E had the 2nd gear fix and the LG has the 1196 (1200) big bore kit. It was ran for a long time with no air filter and was smoking (that's my XScuse)

[bikerphil]

4. Yes, aftermarket Progressive shocks will give a much better ride. Even the cheaper J C Whitney shocks are an improvement over the stock units, JMHO. The stock units have no compression damping in them, so the bike will dip when hitting larger bumps.

5. SS brake line kits can be had for about $75 on eBay, I've never tried them tho, but others have, maybe they'll chime in.

7. The dents can be filled with bondo if done correctly, then primed and repainted. I did this with one of my tanks, but haven't clear coated it yet.

HTH

[DGXSER]

As to the SS brake lines off Ebay, I bought a set off of the seller CoastGuard.

When I got them in, I noticed that the line from the front MC to the splitter is offset 90 degrees at the fittings, the replacement line was not. We emailed back and forth and he stated he would work to make everything right. As I progressed on the install, I found that the only way to get the line to install was to remove my MC and connect the line, then use the MC to twist the line so it would install on the bars. This made me nervous that the line had this torque on the fittings so I asked to get one with the correct offset. I then went to install the rear line and found it was way long and also missing the 90 degree offset required. So I emailed him again, and he said to mail the lines back to him with the lengths and offsets I needed. So I did so. I then had to email him to see if he had gotten the lines, and he asked me to go through the APEX selection sheet to make sure we got the lines made correctly. He also asked what year and model I had.

Since then I sent all the info asked for about one month ago or more. I have yet to get an email or any correspondence from him back. I have emailed him twice since then. So I am waiting hoping he will honor the sale and make things right. So far, I am waiting.

[bikerphil]

DG, that's unfortunate about those SS lines. I was going to order those one day, but now I'll probably go with the two line set-up for the front. Thanks for the heads up on that.

[DGXSER]

Esentially Phil, that is what I have now.

I am not giving up on it, but not holding my breath either.

[marshall]

Thanks guys.

1) I guess I'm just concerned about the initial cost of the equipment needed to reupholster a seat. The more I think about it, the more I feel like I can probably get the look I'm going for with a sheet of leather/vinyl and a borrowed sewing machine. I'll check out JC Whitney too though.

3) Well, I've taken apart the carbs and put them back together a million times, and I have an understanding for the theory behind jet and float height adjustment, and reading plugs... but I've never done any legit tuning and I don't have any special equipment. This is something I want to learn how to do anyways, but If I have to buy an expensive combustion color reader or something to do the job, it might not make sense for me. I'll do some searches. As far as eliminating the air box, and ease of carb removal, those are the two main reasons I would like to do individual filters. I bet I could find a way to support the rear end of the carbs without too much difficulty, so my already-cracked carb boots don't have do deal with even more stress. I'm afraid this bike will definitely not bear many of the MNS trademarks when I'm done with it, but the goal is to end up with something even cooler (at least in my opinion).

5) I'll try to make sure I get SS lines that are a direct replacement. >$100 is more expensive than I'd figured.

8) Engine runs well, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Nice. It's good to know 33,000 is still young - I've got too many friends with new bikes.

[mro]

Just a note about seat covers

All the materials are easy to get (inexpensive too), but need a commercial sewing machine.
Home type sewing machines can handle two layers of vinyl but not the three or four needed to make a cover from scratch. I tried doing some of it by hand and after about an hour decided to take it to a friend. They did a pretty nice job and it’s comfy but not quite what I wanted. Hope someday to run across a deal on a used machine that is too good to pass up.

mro

[Rasputin]

I also bought a set of S/S brake lines from Coastguard on ebay. I thought at first they were not going to line up properly. I was wrong, they fit really nice. No problem with them except the rear brake line could have been 1/2 to 3/4 inch shorter. The only thing I did not like was it did not come with a new Double banjo fitting. The banjoes were wider than my stock ones so I could not simply re-use my old one.
I highly recommend the progressive shocks as they made a huge difference over my stock ones in all areas. I also am running the progressive fork springs and am happy with that decision as well.

[TomRodgers]

My $.02 CoastGuard lines fit on a Standard with no issue.....as long as you dont use the stock front master cylinder. The stocker has the line attaching on the "end" of the m/c pointing towards the tach.... My m/c fluid holder was TOAST so i bucked up and spent 70 bucks for a new one from MikesXS. Same one can be bought at PartsNmore. The line bolts to the FRONT of that m/c and looks good. much more modern looking m/c and NO plastic to get UV exposure to....

Do a quick search on google for seat covers. i got one for my bike for about 35 bucks. A small flat screwdriver, weatherstripping adhesive and some patience. JUST BE CAREFULL OF THE STEEL TABS THAT HOLD THE COVER ON. THEY ARE FRIGGIN SHARP, and usually rusty..double whammy(make sure your tetanus shot is up to date!!!) pry the tabs back, remove old cover, warm new cover up (i hung mine in front of my torpedo heater for about 5 mins), squirt adhesive around the "bump" for the upper seat, stretch new cover over the tabs and bend down....looked pretty good...

I snatched a Colortune off of ebay for 40 bucks delivered.....not too bad. made HUGE difference. i couldnt get 'Sunshine to run worth a flyin $%&# until others on this site helped me out.....Colortune and borrowed a Carbtune from a co-worker.

as far as the bars go...thats a personal issue. im going to change mine, but i wanna check to make sure im not laying down too far and putting too much weight on my hands/wrists...(i have issues with carpal tunnel..my friggin arms go numb if i ride with too much weight on them...like on a crotch-rocket).

dents in the tank.....just take your time with the PREP WORK and it will be just fine. save yourself the $$$ and do it yourself. just take your time. Ask lots of questions if needed...thats what i do, and most here will GLADLY answer!! thats what we are here for.

[marshall]

Well, It took me about 2 days of work to have the bike completely disassembled into the major components in my basement.

Now I'm starting to think about paint. I started cleaning up rusty parts with a wire wheel on a bench grinder, and realized that a few parts would really look nice with no paint - I love the look of brushed aluminum and steel. Is there such a thing as rattle-can clear coat paint that will really stick to bare metal? I know I've done it before with motor enamel paints, but I remember having mediocre results.

Right now I'm thinking about a mix of dark green, black, rust-brown, and maybe a couple tasteful yellow/gold pinstripes as an homage to the MNS theme.

It's crazy to see what used to be my fully operational bike as a pile of parts in the corner of my basement. I need to get my hands on a digital camera...

Marshall

[TajMan]

My frame is completely stripped and sandblasted now, you should get yours sandblasted if you will be re-painting!

For regular paint, you can start with some metal etching primer and then continue with regular automotive primer and automotive paint.

You can probably find a clearcoat that will stick and hold up ok to mostly bare metal, I don't know the details though..

I'm working on my frame and my gas tank with fiberglass-reinforced body filler (like uPol Fibral) to make some awesome designs and cool shapes, I'll have it all perfect before I prime/paint it. I'm doing my frame candy red, some airbrushed ghost design effects with pearl mixed into some clearcoat, then the whole frame clearcoated well. My entire bike will be black except for the candy red frame, I can't wait.

[marshall]

Sounds cool TajMan, hope you can post some photos of the process once it's all done. I've been playing around with Photoshop and some XS11 images to try to decide what colors I want. I really wanted a frame color that catches your eye and outlines the bike, but I'm starting to go a little more conservative so it doesn't look too obnoxious...