BRAKES....I don't got no stinkin brakes...WTF!!!

[TomRodgers]

Okay.....does the following mean i have to rebuild calipers???

Purchased new front m/c for 'Sunshine. Bench bled it. New SS lines from Coastguard guy on ebay. Bled line from m/c to splitter. had to buy new splitter joint due to snapping banjo off trying to stop leak. new joint, annealing crush washers, and no leaks. both lines submerged into clean fluid.squeeze/release/fill. bubbles come...bubbles dissappear, repeat. pure fluid w/ no air. bolt lines to calipers. bleeding left side (furthest from m/c) first. sh!t loads of air. will not bleed and firm up. same with right side. for a while nothing but fluid....but no resistance on lever....let it sit for a hour or so..then BIG bubbles of air. I have gone thru approx. 10 m/c's full of fluid and there is no better feel than when i started with a shot m/c. i can only guess that the calipers are shot. drawing air in somewhere..... any advice? is it possible that while bleeding something that i squeezed the lever too far and fubar the m/c? i read somewhere that if you squeeze it too far that the piston or something needs to be pulled back or out or something.....

For grins, i unbolted the caliper yesterday and pulled it off (right side)there was so much crap/gum/goo all over the pads and such. cleaned it all off. and then i did something dumb. i forgot how it came apart... just curious. i couldnt get the pad holder frame thingy ( yeah i know..technical term) back into the caliper off of the bike. i had to slide the pads and 'holder' over the rotor, then slide the caliper over it. but how do you put the pad screw back in that way??? what me be doing wrong.....'splain me Lucy' !!!

[DGXSER]

Obviously air is getting in somewhere. If you have goo and such on the brake pads, as in it seems to be oozing out of your calipers then you have bad seals on the calipers. Did you pull them apart and clean the calipers as well? If not you definitely should as dirt and crap in there could be the problem.

Otherwise, it sounds like you have a bad seal somewhere. If this is on the rear brake system, the coupling in the line may be loose.

[CatatonicBug]

If you're going so far as to replace the MC, you really should rebuild the caliper at the same time. It's not that much more work for what you get out of it. Definitely worth the extra hour.

Are you doing the front calipers or the rear one? If the front, did you take both off? If not, use the other as an example of how it goes together.

[dbeardslee]

Tom - Maybe this will help.

[Ivan]

Couple of thoughts.

First is that these things can be a flat pain in the exit to bleed I have fought with them for seemingly no reason, nothing showed as the culprit for not bleeding. Finally got speed bleeders and that helped a lot.

Last thought, is your handle adjustment screw right? if it is too long, it will not let the master piston return all the way and won't get another "gulp" of fluid. JAT.

I kid you not, I honestlt thought about just submerging the whole front end in a swimming pool of brake fluid a few times.

Hang in there.

[cywelchjr]

Reading this thread has gotten me thinking. There was an auto mechanics show on this weekend, and they were talking about bleeding brakes, and how hard it is/can to get the air out. What they suggested was a reverse bleeder, which pushes the fresh brake fluid UP the lines in the same direction that the air wants to go. I think this was 2 guys garage that I saw this on. Frankly it makes a lot of sense, we spend a LOT of effort trying to force something out the bottom of the system that naturally wants to come out of the top of the system. I'm thinking that as upright as our braking system is, that this would be even more of an issue, especially when putting new lines on so everything is full of air.

I mean, if it's just pumping new fluid through the system, then normal bleeding can work fine, but getting air out is a royal pain in the @$$. They also said that reverse bleeding systems give the firmest pedal (or lever in out case).

[Silent]

I was going to answer, but I can't get past your avatar

Ohh wait I can close my eyes and touch type

Are your bleeder screws tight when you release the lever? I've seen them draw in air at that point by not having them tight enough. Just a thought.

[dbeardslee]

Unless you took the entire brake system apart and thoroughly cleaned it, I'm not sure bleeding from the bottom up would be a good idea. A lot of gunk collects behind the piston, and I wouldn't want that stuff going back up towards the master cylinder. If it was all spotless, it does make sense. I agree with Ivan that these things can be a pain to bleed. A power bleeder has worked well for me. My $.02

[cywelchjr]

Unless you took the entire brake system apart and thoroughly cleaned it, I'm not sure bleeding from the bottom up would be a good idea. A lot of gunk collects behind the piston, and I wouldn't want that stuff going back up towards the master cylinder. If it was all spotless, it does make sense. I agree with Ivan that these things can be a pain to bleed. A power bleeder has worked well for me. My $.02

Right. But in this case we are talking about a cleaned and rebuilt system. On top of that, once that is done, if you bleed it regularly and keep it clean, you shouldn't have a problem with gunk anymore.

[dbeardslee]

You must have seen something I didn't. I see where Tom took the caliper off, but I didn't see any mention of him rebuilding them - just cleaning the gunk off the 'pads and such'. Maybe I misread it.

[John]

Please read my post in this thread

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...ing+banjo+bolt

[TomRodgers]

I have not rebuilt the caliper....yet. looks like i may just want to do that.

currently the piston is all the way IN the bore, meaning there is 'slop' from the pads to the rotor.with the caliper off, still no movement from the piston...
i was going to try the setup from Frankenbike, but same thing there...no brake pressure.... only GreyGhost has brakes

there was straw/grass/goo and god knows what else packed up, in, and around the calipers/pads.

best source for rebuilt kits?? ebay??

[DGXSER]

Parts N More has them. I like dealing with Georgefix on ebay. He has about every kit we need for these old bikes and knows which ones fit which model and year. He's treated me well so far.

[Ken Talbot]

I would put my bet on you still having air in the system. It would be very unusual for air to be getting into the system without very obvious signs of fluid also leaking out somewhere. Realize that by bleeding through to the calipers, you are trying to push any air bubbles "downstream" when their natural tendency is to float "up". You pump a few bowls down, the bubbles move down a ways, then when you stop, the bubbles go back up again. Frustrating - yes! Vacuum pump bleeders help overcome this problem because they can move through enough volume quick enough to keep the air moving along.

[DiverRay]

I agree with Ken! Go to Harbor Freight and buy the vacuum pump/brake bleeder. Just keep the master cyl. full, and you'll have working brakes in no time!!
Then you can buy new shocks for the avitar!