kick start lever? folding

[CatatonicBug]

Please correct me if I am wrong.

I thought about the same kickstart conversion and researched throught the forum. I remember reading that later models dont have the parts in the trans that allows the use of a kickstarter as a snap on. That is why I gave up thinking about it. I have a 1981 XS1100 special.

That is correct. However, if you obtain the parts, you can always install them if you choose. The '78-'79 models had the gears and the post installed, but the later models did not.

[Guy_b_g]

It's a bit of work though...I think that the cases must be split, though I seem to recall that someone was going to try to do it without splitting the cases and post the results...I can't recall if it was ever done or not.

[Athedra]

I dont have a kickstarter on mine. How big a job is it to fit one, and how hard is it to kick these monsters. Push-starting it is not fun when the battery decides to give, and happened a few times to me already.

[CatatonicBug]

If the battery is gone, a kick-start won't work anyway. It requires a certain amount of voltage to get the system to work. The "emergency" kick-start lever is only there for if the starter actually dies.

[EricNW]

How small of a battery can you get away with if you run a kickstart?

[joceiphus]

I'd like to expand on that question. Say you have only a headlight, taillight, and starter. Or even just a headlight, taillight, and kick only.
Smallest battery?

[crazy steve]

I'd like to expand on that question. Say you have only a headlight, taillight, and starter. Or even just a headlight, taillight, and kick only.
Smallest battery?

If you keep the starter, you'll still need enough battery to spin the motor. I haven't checked to see what the CCA (cold crank amps) on the XS battery is, but you shouldn't go any less. That doesn't rule out a smaller battery, as physical size doesn't have everything to do with this. But having electric start generally dictates battery size insofar as how many amps are needed.

Kick only? Then you probably should match the battery to the actual 'running load', i.e. how many amps the bike draws while running. Lights + ignition system. You could go smaller yet, but that can lead to overcharging of the battery. So you're looking for a AH rating the same as the load.

And after looking at the circuit diagram for the charging system, I realized that the XS doesn't have a 'conventional' alternator either; it's some sort of hybrid design...

'78E original owner

[b.walker5]

And after looking at the circuit diagram for the charging system, I realized that the XS doesn't have a 'conventional' alternator either; it's some sort of hybrid design...

'78E original owner

Hybrid design ??, how so ?? Apart from being reversed, i.e having a stationary field coil and no slip rings, it looks like a standard alternator to me.

[Pat Kelly]

not bashing Harley but the individual

Around 1984 I was refuelling my 400cc Honda Hawk. The gas station had 107 octane gas. My Hawk had clip-ons and a solo seat that I had made myself (have Poloroids of that bike 'll have to scan and post someday).
Some dingle-head on a Harley pulls-up to refuel too, he had his "ol lady" on the back.
I'm pumpig gas and he says to me "they don't sell rice here"..... several times. I looked at him, rolled my eyes, and ignored him as he repeated the line.
I walked to the cashier and paid for the gas, walked by his bike and looked it over. I said "nice bike". Walked back to mine, got on, turned the key, flipped out the kick lever then said loudly, "real men kick-start their bikes" (his HD was electric only). "Ol Lady started snickering as I stabbed the lever and rode off.

I have used the kick lever on my 78E. Wasn't difficult at all. If I had one on the bike that folded I would use it to save the starter.

[Larrym]

Battery Size VS CCA

Joe,

Once the engine is running all power is provided by the charging system. The only trick is to provide enough voltage/current to make the coils fire and the initial alternator field.



Technical Specifications
Dimensions: 5.28" L x 2.64" W x 2.34" H
Actual Weight (lb.): 3.1
Shipping Weight (lb.): 4.0
Enclosure: ABS Plastic
DC Output Voltage: 12 V
Max. Discharge Current (A) 5 sec.: 15 A
Amp/Hr: 3
Cycle Service Charging Voltage: 14.4–15.0 V @ 68 ºF
Capacity at C/20: 3
Charging Voltage Standby Use: 13.5–13.8 V @ 68 ºF
Operating Temperature: -4 ° to 140 °F
Ambient Temp Charge: -4 to 122 °
Regulatory Approval: D.O.T., I.A.T.A., F.A.A., C.A.B., & UL M20845
Manufacturer: Powersonic

Yes. I've used this battery on my first XS1100 when I was testing the electrical system prior to installing a "regular" motorcycle battery. It's just a battery I pulled out of an electric scooter. Price is around $20.00. I didn't keep it installed long term but if I opted out of the electric start then I wouldn't hesitate to run this battery for a season as long as I kept an eye on it.

[joceiphus]

That's pretty awesome! Thank you

[joceiphus]

Around 1984 I was refuelling my 400cc Honda Hawk. The gas station had 107 octane gas. My Hawk had clip-ons and a solo seat that I had made myself (have Poloroids of that bike 'll have to scan and post someday).
Some dingle-head on a Harley pulls-up to refuel too, he had his "ol lady" on the back.
I'm pumpig gas and he says to me "they don't sell rice here"..... several times. I looked at him, rolled my eyes, and ignored him as he repeated the line.
I walked to the cashier and paid for the gas, walked by his bike and looked it over. I said "nice bike". Walked back to mine, got on, turned the key, flipped out the kick lever then said loudly, "real men kick-start their bikes" (his HD was electric only). "Ol Lady started snickering as I stabbed the lever and rode off.

I have used the kick lever on my 78E. Wasn't difficult at all. If I had one on the bike that folded I would use it to save the starter.

That's a good story!
I think I'll keep the starter, but pretty much just use it in the mornings when the engine's cold. As far as the rest, it'll just be headlight taillight.

[crazy steve]

Hybrid design ??, how so ?? Apart from being reversed, i.e having a stationary field coil and no slip rings, it looks like a standard alternator to me.

For one thing, that 'field coil' isn't really a field coil. The XS design uses permanent magnets (so no slip rings, like many bikes) in the rotor, and the so-called field coil appears to be some sort of input to the regulator that allows it to decide how much of the charging output should be sent to the battery. Or it may be a 'counter-EMF' supply to offset the unregulated magnets, but not knowing what's going on inside the 'regulator', that's just a guess. This design usually runs at full output at all times; the 'regulator' just decides how much to use, shunting the extra to ground. This 'field coil' thing may be the reason you can't push-start an XS with a dead battery (if that's true; never tried it personally).

On a conventional alternator, there's no permanent magnets; the 'field coil' is the rotor and the magnetic flux is generated by the current fed into it via the slip rings. You have true regulation here; by varying the current to the rotor, you can actually change the output. This is why you can't push-start a car with a dead-flat battery; with no voltage to the rotor, there's no magnetic flux in the rotor = zero voltage generated.

I've seen other bike permanet magnet rotor alternator designs that don't have this 'field coil', but simply run at full output and the 'regulator/rectifier' shunts the excess output to ground. These you can push start with a dead-flat battery if you can get the alternator spinning fast enough to get usable output.

[joceiphus]

Could you put some king of magneto on an XS11?

[EricNW]

If I opt to go kick start only, are there any starter blockoff plates available or will I be making one?