Ok, clutch, what did I do to it?

[cywelchjr]

Ok, I got the engine changed out in Brutus, and I followed the suggestion to swap the primary wires on the coils when it wouldn't start, which fixed it. Now, one major issue left.

When I bought the engine, I thought from the picture on ebay that it had the clutch pack. But when I got it, and looking back at the picture, I found that while it had the outer and inner baskets, and the big middle nut, everything else was missing. So, I found a complete clutch pack on ebay and bought it. Then of course procrastination, and it sat for about 4 months before I was ready to change the motor. In the meantime, my stupid dog peed on the clutch pack. It got almost exclusively on the ring with the posts that the star plate bolts to, and I tried to clean it up and when tightening things the stupid posts broke off (3 of them). So I ended up using parts from the 2 1/2 clutch packs I have to build one clutch pack. So after getting it put together and adjusting it 5 times, it won't release. The lever feels right, and all that, I can see the lever move and the screw move in to push it, but it won't release.

So, what do I look for first? I thought I had it all put together properly, and everything seemed to be in spec, with everything nice and flat, plenty of thickness on the friction and steels, but it's not releasing. It was only together for a week before I got the motor started, so I'm not thinking they stuck together in that short time. What's the most likely thing to have to look at, should I just pull the cover off and pull it apart and go through it again? I just want to get it working, and I want to do it right away.

Help!

[Incubus]

I'm a bit puzzled by your description. Usually, if there is a problem with clutch disengagement. you have little tension when you pull in the lever. Did you adjust the activator post? Loosen the lock nut and screw in the activator post until it makes contact and then back it out a quarter turn? If so, I suggest you pull the clutch cover and make sure the part of the actuator on the inside of the cover is working correctly.

Some clutches of this era will not work properly is you put the interior basket in wrong. It can be 90 or 230 degrees off. I don't remember if XS11 clutches do that or not. I just had my clutch apart and I made sure the basket went all the way in, but I didn't notice if that could occur.

Check the post. If that doesn't help I think you are going to have to pull the clutch cover, at least.

Patrick

[MindWebs]

Adjustments..

try the simple things first, Succubus had the right idea.

loosen you cable at the handle end and adjust the cam post, Loosen the lock nut and screw in the cam post until it makes contact and then back it out a quarter turn.

Then fine tune the cable on the handle end.

if that fails.... then sorry dude, crack it open and recount all the parts and double check the assembly.

YamFactoryXS1100Manual.pdf
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZXHFKEDY

XS1100SFPartslist.pdf
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ZKDCH8AN

Good luck
Webs

[dbeardslee]

Did you check your steels (qty 8) and frictions (qty 7) to make sure they weren't warped?

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there Cy,

Okay, don't know if you've seen this extra clutch plate tip, but it has some nice pictures?!

There's a notation in the MANUAL...do you have one? It talks about a problem with mixing the large collar sleave/bearing that the clutch spins on on the clutch shaft....that it matches the basket. There are different sets of marks on the end of the collar/bearing as well as the basket. I can't remember the specifics, but one style has only 1 mark, the other style has 2 marks. You can use one type with either basket, but not the other type. I know this sounds cryptic, but it's in the manual.

Tod also found that the 2 large washers...one on the shaft, the other down inside the basket are NOT interchangeable, they are different diameters, and if the larger one is used on the shaft, it'll block the oil and cause damage to your clutch shaft and such!

There are 3 ball bearings within the throwout lever mechanism in the housing, and IF the lever is moved too far before the housing it put in place, it can rotate, and 1 or more ball can fall out, and then it's tilted and will not move smoothly or work properly...binding etc.!

Take a look at the pictorial to review how you put it all together to see if it matches with what you did! And check the manual for the info on the sleeve/bearing and basket markings to make sure you're using the right combination from your set of parts!
T.C.

[79XS11F]

If the external adjustments are correct then pop off the clutch cover and confirm that those 3 balls are positioned properly. Sometime they fall out of position during assembly. I have had this happen once as well so now when I am putting the cover on I hold the little tension on the cable attachment arm so the balls stay put. The result of the balls not being positioned properly is what you are describing. Seeing as you might have the cover off check that those washers have not be mixed up and that the thrust washer is installed correctly. It's "cupped" and the hollow faces the engine.
Rob

[mro]

It doesn't hurt to coat the all the plates with oil before assembly either.
If I have a clutch pack out for an extended amount of time I soak em in oil.

mro

[trbig]

And not to be nitpicky, but there are 7 steels and 8 friction discs.. just the opposite of what was posted... unless you add another steel.


Tod

[dbeardslee]

And not to be nitpicky, but there are 7 steels and 8 friction discs

Right you are, Todd. I was looking right at the parts fiche when I posted that too. Must be my mechanical dyslexia kicking in . Sorry for any confusion.

[egleaves]

If I'm reading your post correctly you say the clutch won't disengage, right? I put new friction plates in mine recently and had the same problem.

I soaked the plates in new oil for about a day before installing them and everything went together correctly, but when it came time to move the bike it was as if the clutch were "locked".

I wound up having to start my bike (in neutral) while holding both brakes and after dieing a few times the clutch pack eventually broke loose and disengaged. I don't know if it was because I let my plates soak too long, if it was the type of oil I soaked them in, or what, but it seemed like the plates remained stuck together until I applied enough force to overcome whatever surface tension was holding them together.

Once they broke loose, all was well.

[cywelchjr]

Yep, I did put it together. They are not NEW frictions, but they are new to me, and look like their in good condition (in addition to being in spec.) I think I'm going to see if I can eyeball the actuating mechanism through the oil fill to insure that the pressure plate is getting pushed back when the clutch lever is squeezed. If it's not, they I'll pull the side cover and find out why, if it is, then I'll try all the different things I've read on here about breaking them free (rocking in back and forth in gear, getting it warm and riding a short distance etc.) and see if that works. If after that, it's still not working then I'll fully disassemble it and carefully make sure everything is exactly right by the breakdown in the shop manual (which I do have on computer so I'll have to take my laptop out there with me.

[Incubus]

I think it's really unlikely that used friction disks are going to stick together like that. I've had clutch disks stick, but usually only when the bike sat for a decade or more, the clutch disks were stationary and all of the oil drained off of them. A few months out of the bike isn't likely to do it. Clutch disks that dry out beyond viability outside the bike do not stick together, they crumble. I've had that happen.

Unless, that is, the clutch pack was stored as a unit and your didn't take it apart to inspect the disks before you mounted it. Then, I suppose, they could have been stuck together.

Look to the actuator first. If that isn't your problem I suggest taking the clutch apart again and putting it all together very carefully. Make sure everything is seating correctly.

Patrick

[jmcmillan40]

thrust washer question

hello well i have a problem, someone was in this bike before me.

and i did the 1,2 gear fix, cam stop wasnt in bike, so i put one in, 1st thing i noticed.

2nd, i got new friction plates and added a second steel, got the clutch back together i have a new clutch cable.
so when i try to ajust the screw in until it tuches i have to screw it in so far that i barly have enough to put the nut on, anything less and i have way sloppy cable.
so i ajust untill it hits and i have to back out upper cable ajustment and i get clutch but i barly have to let out the handle and it engages.

something is not right my springs are in spec.

so the other thing i noticed is that the 1st thrust washer is thin and does not look like the right one.
if the thrust washer that is closest to oil pump was rong and to thin would that cause the hole assemply to be in to far?

[Guy_b_g]

I'm thinkin' it had something to do with the dog pee. What breed was it? Did you check it's API service stamp? Maybe other members here will chime in with their opinions on this issue...

[DGXSER]

Guy....step away form the bottle....waaayyyy away from the bottle.

My best guess is that you did not get the clutch basket fully seated on the shaft. I'd pull the clutch cover and look/feel around and be sure you have both the primary drive shaft gear and the oil pump idler gear properly interlocked with the clutch basket. Next, look at the clutch plates (both steels and frictions) and make sure they are all properly seated and tight together. The other thing I can think of is if your clutch springs were the wrong ones and are to short.

Now the other thing I notice in reading your description is you mention it has to be so tight in or your cable is sloppy, and it is a new cable. Did you compare the cable to the original to see it matches up? Also, the adjustment at the clutch does not set cable tension, it sets the travel required to disengage the clutch. So that center screw only goes in until it lightly seats against the star plate, then about 1/4 turn out. The cable free play is set up at the clutch lever on the handlebars.