xs gods i call apon you for advice

[freak_leg]

ok guys i find myself in another sticky situation, classic case of live and learn. what i meant to do is tighten the timing chain on my '78. well i think i ended up messing up my cam timing. i backed out the tension spring then turned the engine by hand (after re reading the manual i realize i did this backwards) at any rate i now have no compression. I think i need to reset my cams.

Is what i'm thinking correct? If so please send me any tips/tricks/warnings i should know about before diving into this mess...

Thanks guys

Tony

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Freak,

IF you have already tested for compression and have NONE, then it's more than just resetting your cams and chain! Most likely you've already bent some valves....but you might get lucky, and have just slipped cam sprocket teeth enough to prevent closing of the valves together to create pressure, without not necessarily having bent valves....but I doubt it?

Take a look at THIS THREAD for information about what you may have done!?

You'll want to take the cam cover off if you haven't already done so, check your cams, etc. To possibly prevent further bending of more valves, don't turn the engine over anymore, just remove the CAMS from the engine, this will allow the valves to go up into the head away from the pistons, pull the spark plugs, and you'll then be able to turn the engine over to find TDC, so that you can then reset your cams.

With the both cams out, you can then test for compression by rotating the engine and have your finger/thumb over the plug hole to see if you can feel pressure against your finger. IF you can, then the valves for that cylinder are probably sealing okay. But turn the engine by hand, don't use the starter, try to test each cylinder with the piston down low in the cylinder, because IF the valves are sealing, it will also create a vacuum IF the piston is high close to the plug hole as it slides down away! IF you don't feel any pressure, vacuum then one or both valves for that cylinder are probably bent causing it to not seal=no pressure!

IF you find pressure/vacuum on all 4 cylinders, then you can put the cams back in, retime, secure the cam chain tensioner, and then 1st, check your cam/valve lifter clearances to make sure you don't have any really big clearances...again an indictation of a bent valve. IF the clearances are all within spec, then you can recheck your compression, IF good, then you got REAL LUCKY, and can put it back together and run it! IF not, then you'll have to pull the head to do a valve job and replace bent valves!!
T.C.

[freak_leg]

EEEK!!! Thanks for the information, lets hope i'm lucky

[XJOK2PLAY]

T.C.'s right....
There's been many posts recently with this horror story.

Seems like it affects the intake valves. They usually wind up bent when the t/c adjustment goes wrong.

It's like everything else... it's repairable... just more work, more time, more labor, more $$....

Hopefully that hasn't happened...

Did you try to start it? Since you've checked compression, I assume you've cranked it over... a lot? If it got out of time... that's all it takes. Sorry.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Freak,

IF this level of work seems a bit daunting, try editting your Profile and signature to include your city, state as well as the Year/Model of your bike.

There may be some Xsives in your local that would be willing to lend some experienced hands to assist you for a meal and a brew!?!?

T.C.

[Ivan]

Seems like as of lately we need a sticky thread that says something like:

If you don't absolutely know that you absolutely know what you are doing, don't mess with the cam tensioner until you do!

Nothing personal to the OP, its just that it seems to be a rising problem with lots of new guys as of late. I am getting kind of tired of that feeling in my spine like someone dragged there fingernails on a chalkboard while I was chewing tinfoil.

[DGXSER]

Hey Ivan,

I know the feelign of futility you are speaking of, however, if I applied that theory I would be sitting here with a large paper weight in my garage due to carbs and gears. When I performed the dremel fix I was definitely wondering down a dark path I had never been on before. And lots of folks here shined their lights to guide me through it. Primarily how easy the exhaust come soff of a bike compared to a car, and how to get the bloody gears back in the bike. The carbs were less scary to me than the gears. Same thing for cam chain tensioner.

Point being, that I would still not consider myself as knowing EXACTLY what I am doing with these machines, even the cam chain tensioner. Although some of the local XS group would tell you I know more than the average bear about these machines.

I would say that if they know about this board, and they proceed without reading the at least the tech tips first, then they should turn in their wrenches. Way to much good information there to pass up the opportunity. Its like being given the test to your final exams the week before and not looking at it before you go in. And definitely read the friggin manual THEN read the tech tips as they should take precident over the manual in my opinion.

[randy]

Ivan, I hear you...

Is it my imagination or has there been a sharp rise in what I like to call the 'lunatic fringe' threads over the past year?

"Hi, I know nothing about engines, but I've finally got the motor completely apart, how do I put it back together...?

"I'm not good with electrical, so I cut the whole harness out of the bike, how do I re-wire it?

There's only so much that can be done over the web, so when I see one of those, I avoid it like the plague

[BigDick]

Seems like as of lately we need a sticky thread that says something like:

If you don't absolutely know that you absolutely know what you are doing, don't mess with the cam tensioner until you do!

Nothing personal to the OP, its just that it seems to be a rising problem with lots of new guys as of late. I am getting kind of tired of that feeling in my spine like someone dragged there fingernails on a chalkboard while I was chewing tinfoil.

*looks around* Did someone call me?! I will say that while I have read 99-100% of the tech tips on here, I did not read that one through thoroughly before I broke out my wrenches.

[bikerphil]

Most times problems occur with removing the tensioner when the bike is on the sidestand. ALWAYS have it on the centerstand.

[Russ79]

There may be some Xsives in your local that would be willing to lend some experienced hands to assist you for a meal and a brew!?!?

I agree 100% with Ivan, that being said, I think the above mentioned way of thinking is what I am most tired of. I am a mechanic by trade, and have done a lot of work on these bikes, ( I have three of them), and I have spent the better part of my summer being "that guy" you know, the one who always gets stuck working on someone else's bike because they were either not smart enough to realize they were in over their head, or just to lazy to either pick up a book and learn, or better yet, just come on here and do a search. I charge $50 an hour to work on cars, bikes, lawnmowers, and just about anything else mechanical. Which is a joke! The last time I went into an NTB to get a stinking tire fixed they charge $85! I'm not taking anything away from those who want to spend their free time fixing other people's bikes. God bless you for it! But I'm done! A cylinder head rebuild is a well over $1,000 job! And last time we talked, my banker still won't take food and beer for my house payment!

For what its worth!

Russ79

[DGXSER]

You know Russ, I surely understand your thoughts. And I do not intend to take food form anyones kids mouths. And most decisively I will nto do much for someone if I feel they are just looking for someone to do the work for them and do not want to learn or get their hands dirty.

however, the cool thing about this site to me has always been that folks with the knowledge have beeen willing to share it with those who do not. Now me, I like to work on bikes and cars as a hobby. I by no means think I could charge for my work because I am fumbling through it for it the most part and get lucky now and then to make it work. I am also blessed with a butload of mechanical aptitude. So stuff like this just clicks for me.

But you know, somewhere along the way, you did not know a park plug from a pilot jet either, and someone took their time to show you, explain it to you, and let you learn. I'm not one of those people who read the zodiac signs or talk to the plants or anything like that, but I do firmly believe that you reap the rewards for work you do for others. I've been in to many jams and had folks stop to help me out not to.

As to working for a meal and a beer, well, I'm a picky eater and gave up drinking and driving/riding a long time ago. So, an ice tea and a heart felt thank you are all I need, that and the feeling I get when my work pays off and the machine roars to life and runs well. That is better than ...well....alot of things anyway.

[Ivan]

I wasn't really trying to get in to the philosophy of the matter, I was just thinking there needs to be more of a warning to the new guys so they don't inadvertently bend valves, which are rather expensive and requires more effort to repair than most new guys would care to put into and "old bike".

I realize most of the general populace has not had their hands in thousands of different engines, and don't know much about them. I think there is a stereotype that mechanics are a "low rent" type of job that people take on because they weren't educated enough or were not bright enough to get a corporate job. Based on that stereotype, most people think wrenching on cars and bikes is like getting a Geico insurance quote, "so easy a caveman could do it." Those of us with experience in all things internally combusted know different, and it is sad that the general populace doesn't.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Ivan,

Regrettably, many/most of the requests for help do come from folks like Freak, who didn't realize how complicated some of these procedures are, and didn't thoroughly read the manual (he says so himself) to be sure he was familiar with the procedure before attempting it. SO...even if we did have a big RED FLAG warning in the tech tips on the cam chain tensioner adjustment, not sure if it would help very many?

Granted, some folks come here FIRST, before they get their bike, to do research, and they DO read the ALL of the tips, do searches, etc., and they aren't the ones that get into trouble.

But what the hey, I'll see about EDITTING the STICKY thread at the top of this forum that asks folks to READ IT before posting, which directs them to the various forums and such.

But just like an uncontrolled intersection, nobody puts up a stop sign till someone gets hurt or killed at it!?
T.C.

[79XS11F]

We see this so often that it is likely why so many people will be quick to slam the XS1100s engine design for its cam chain tensioner issues. It is actually a very simple and effect devise until someone stretches or strips the threads on the lock bolt and nut arrangement. Once that's been done the device will not work as it is suppose to and the cam chain will be in chronic need of readjustment. This is also not a job that needs to be done every weekend or every time you think the top end is noisy. If you do need to make an adjustment every weekend while the device is working properly you like should check the chains condition.
Anyway, If you just make sure you have a manual, read the instructions a few times & then read and follow them as you do this task, own a torque wrench and know how to use it, you will never have any issues with the cam chain adjustment, the adjuster or risk damaging the valves as a result of doing the job incorrectly.
Rob