New Owner & clutch issue

[GsBike]

I would like to thank everyone at this website for sealing my decision to buy a XS1100. It's great to know of others who love riding/working on vintage bikes...not to mention the great wealth of hands on knowledge!

This brings me to my first sticky issue & posting. I purchased a 79' XS1100F with 18K miles about two months ago and have been going through routine checks and giving her a good tune-up and cleaning. My prior bike was a 83' XJ550 that I ran and maintained for 10 years (interesting to see the updates between the two models). I have already cleaned and synced the carbs, changed all the fluids / plugs and have the engine running smooth. I took her out for long drive and experienced the 'clunky' transmission I have read about first hand...in fact, I thought for sure the clutch badly needed adjustment (I could hear and feel the dogs skipping and biting right before they engage during shifting and on several attempts missed 2nd or was refused). I printed the tech tip on adjusting the clutch swing arm and as I was unscrewing the lock down nut I noticed that I could wiggle the post a little by hand. I finished the adjustment and took her for a test drive with little difference.

I'm mostly chalking my shifting problem up to inexperience and suspect I will get into a rhythm. However, is it normal to be able to wiggle the clutch post (what the swing arm attaches to) by hand? or is it an indication of a bigger problem?

[Dennyz]

wiggly post is OK. If it does not wiggle, the adjustment is too tight.

[GsBike]

o.k. good.

I also noticed that the clutch swing arm is pulling all the slack out of the clutch cable (the adjustment screw at the hand lever is all the way in). Should I loosen the nut again and move the swing arm up to produce some slack in the cable?

It seems like the most frequent clutch problem discussed is slippage (is slippage when you slip out of gear under acceleration?) mine doesn't slip out of gear (once it is in) but, it is quite a bear to get in (more than just cluckyness). How would pulling the clutch, adding the washers to the springs, and doing a cleaning/referb effect this? or is all that just unnecessary?

[sixtysix]

Slippage is the clutch plates, different problem. Popping out of gear is the 'second gear problem' even though it may happen in first. The dogs on the gears pop out and disengage due to wear or other problems.....no clutch shimming will help this. Loud, clunky shifts are normal...enjoy!

[TopCatGr58]

Clutch Problems

Hey there GSBike,

The clutch swingarm can't be moved or rotated to any other position, it is notched and only fits on the shaft one way, it's supposed to be at about a 4 0'clock position when the slack is adjusted properly. If your swingarm is very close to the case/spring mount and rotated clockwise, then you may not have done the adjustment correctly, or you may have excessive wear in your plates which would cause the adjustment screw to be turned further in towards the clutches.

During the adjustment process, after you unlocked the lock nut, did you keep the wrench on it to keep it from turning as you turned the center screw with a screwdriver clockwise until it met with greater resistance, then backed it back out 1/4 turn, then held it in position with the screwdriver while you relocked the nut? There will be some resistance on the screw to begin with, it shouldn't turn or spin too easily, but you should definitely be able to tell when the screw is beginning to press against the pressure plate, the screwdriving resistance will be much stiffer.

The trouble shifting into the gears as you described sounds more like the clutches are NOT disengaging enough to allow the gears to mesh without engine torque being applied to them. IF the clutches and release lever were adjusted too tight, then it would keep the clutch plates from fully engaging causing them to slip under load, symptom of in higher gear like 4 or 5, the engine revving but the bike not going any faster....plates slipping!

I would revisit your clutch lever adjustment. HTH. T.C.

[GsBike]

Thanks for the info, TopCat.

I did perform a readjustment of the clutch lever this weekend and had a nice ride...seems like it's shifting better (may be due to the driver getting used to it). The bike definitely likes to shift at certain RPMs better than others. The swingarm is basically pointing at 4:30 - 5:00 with the handle adjustment screw all the way in. I will make another try at the adjustment and hold onto the shaft during the tightening but I don't think the shaft rotated during the last adjustment.

Next: several valve shims need to be replaced. I'm looking forward to using the infamous valve tool.

BTW: TopCat, I noticed your from Virginia. Do you know of any organized rides planned for the area?

[uk1.1s]

Gear changes and XS1100's

Hi GS,

One final extra thing that occurred to me.

Although the XS11 box is so bad that, yes, worried owners are usually the norm, if you are finding real problems in engaging gears maybe, as Top-Cat suggested, you may not be disengauging the clutch.

This can be caused by incorrect adjustment or maybe stuck together plates. Sounds like you've investigated adjustment - but if the bikes been stood a while you can sometimes get the clutch plates sticking together with old oil residues. I had this so bad on one bike that I had to take out all the plates and lever them apart with a screw-driver.

Anyway - quick test - engine off, select 1st....keep the clutch in......try pushing....

If there's significant clutch drag casued by either problem the bike will be EVEN harder to push around than in neutral.... and that was hard work yesterday afternoon as I remember with my old XS.

Those gearboxes are attrocious though!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey there GS,

You're welcome, if what I told you helped. Like UK1.1 said, your clutch plates may have been slightly stuck together. And now that you're riding it, getting the oil nice and warm, the plates may be separating better, and like you said, learning the shift points helps. It amazes me how many people try to treat these machines like big thumper twins and keep the RPMs relatively low. They are really relatively high revving and enjoy running at the higher rpms, ie. 5-7k, and so shifting around that range seems pretty easy to do, both up and down the gears!

Now, as for rides around here, when I was talking to DEO after repairing his TRANNY, (Skipping 1st, and pending 2nd), he thought that Ken Krieger had recommended planning a ride, but haven't heard anything concrete. DEO lives in Fredericksburg, Va., there's another one in DC., a couple in Richmond area, myself in Portsmouth. The antique japanese bike club out of Atlanta just put a post on the Yahoo group about an upcoming ride in October, just glanced at it, not sure about the proposed location. Last year it was in Asheville, NC. great roads with lots of twisties, had the best time of any Rally I've been to mostly because of those great roads!!!

As for your adjustment, You don't need to hold onto the shift lever or shaft, but the wrench that unlocks the lock nut, so that it won't turn and start to bind/tighten while you turn the screw driver center shaft. You want to be able to turn that center shaft with the screwdriver without the locknut turning until you get the right slack...1/4 turn back(C.C.W) from contact point!! Hope that's a little clearer!?

T.C.

[GsBike]

UK1.1 - Great...I'll try the stuck plate test. I don't think the bike sat for very long before I got her but... the P.O. was horrible at maintenance (luckily he only had her for 5 months - couldn't handle her). Come to think of it...the clutch cable does need lubrication - that might help.

Thanks for the clarification, T.C...I will keep an eye on the nut when I adjust the clutch. That would be great if some XSers can get together around here...if not...a ride with the Antique Japanese Bikers would be good. It's hard to find classic bike riders...most ride either crotch-rockets or hogs.