Need more power!!!

[T99Ford]

Wow, this is getting out of hand. I better add my .02 before it gets shut down! Here goes:
There is no denying that these old bikes are pigs in stock form when compared against newer sport bikes. It's just the way it is. BUT--there are people out there who can build these bikes to compete strongly (JustJeff comes to mind). The difference is that these guys aren't screwing around with the airbox/pod argument, they are doing mods that take serious knowlege and skill to perform. They understand completely what they are doing. And, until we all do the same, we will ride our marginal (take that with a grain of salt) performing bikes. We must then content ourselves with looks and handling.
It still amazes me the strong feeling over airboxes. These bikes were developed before tuned airboxes, which makes the importance of the box really negligible. Most of the race bikes from this era didn't even use air CLEANERS, let alone any kind of filter. I am with Dan, that unless anyone can show hard test DATA to support either one, ther preferences are based mostly upon looks and performance guesses. Performance is not really gained or lost either way, althought at least the air is filtered.
I still maintain that most of the hand wrenched bikes on the road only run at about 85% of potential, since most people are too lazy, inexperienced, or unable to keep their machines in perfect tune. It is alot of work, and takes a significant understanding of how the machine works. So, if you want to take advantage of the upper 15%, learn some for reals mechanical stuff about carburetors, suspension, brakes, etc. Then one day you'll look up and realize you forgot all about which air filter you had, and notice that you are doing things to your bike that really matter!

[trbig]

So you tune it, spend a ton of money, and get that 15%. Let's say your bike was running really well before you started and you bumped it up to 100hp. Let's give you the benefit and call it 110hp. Heck.. let's call it 120 for chits and grins. What you're left with is a 120hp motor in a 600 pound, old weak round steel framed bike.. where you'll still get smoked by all the new bikes.

I suggest you take them for what they are.. a great example of an era gone by. Still fun, but not the big bad boy on the block... More like the old guy that used to be, with stories of, "Back in my day..."


Tod

[Dan Hodges]

More Smoke

katana 600's don't have 110 hp and they are very heavy. they only have around 60 hp and they weigh almost 500 pounds! the information is out there, just go look it up. i have about 50 motorcycle mags and there are all kinds of track numbers weights measurements etc...

cbr 600 rr's, r6, zx6's the new ones all run in the high 10's the 03 r6 according to a bike mag of mine only ran an 11.03 1/4 mile. the yzf600r i had would run 11.3 as well as the fz6,
katana's are boat anchors. if you got smoked by one your not launching right!

not trying to be rude but it has alot to do with the rider! as i said there are alot of write up's in the mags and the numbers will shock you.

sure if you go up against a super sport 600 you will probably be toast if the guy knows how to launch. but chances are they will be young and not be able to launch well.

go to bikez.com and look up different year bikes and there weights and hp and torque. the 600's only put about 40-48 to the crank.
and i am not saying you'll beat them in the twisties either... i can't keep up with my friends ninja 250 in the mountains but i can scream past him in a straight line very easy!
it also depends on your bike the 78's and 79's were the fastest. plus when you get rid of the heavy 4-2 exhaust and put on a light weight kerker and get rid of the huge airbox and stock rotors you can drop alot of weight.

Motorcylist magazine tested a Susuki GSX-R600 in October of 04 and it made 103.6 hp and 49 ft. lbs. of torque and ran the quarter mike in 10.77 seconds @ 128 mph. It weighed 420 lbs.

I have no figures on the current model but I would assume they have gotten faster. In the July 09 edition of Cycle World they tested more 600's and the Kawasaki ZX-6R made 110.2 hp and 44 ft. lbs. of torque and blitzed the 1/4 mile in 10.59 seconds @ 133.98 mph and it weighed 398 pounds. The power delivery on one of these 100 horse 600's is nil until you get over 7500 rpm after which they begin to come alive but I personally would not enjoy riding one other than for a few miles.

When it comes to drag racing motorcycles, every 15-20 pounds is a tenth of a second or about 3 horsepower. A box stock 81 Eleven Special weighs 557 pounds dry out of the box and ran between 11.90 and 12.10 depending on what test you read and there were many and it had anywhere between 70 hp and 74 hp depending on the test and so you can do the math.

Naturally the skill level of the pilot and his/her weight is paramount in a bike race and I don't believe I said anything about a Susuki 600 Katana, they don't make them anymore.

On an XS you can lose about 20 lbs. by going to a 4-1 pipe and 3-5 more by getting rid of the centerstand but the air box won't register on my fish type scale, it's light but the stock wheels on an XS are heavy mothers and there are much lighter wheels out there but who cares.

You can increase the horsepower on an XS Eleven by 30% and still have a fairly mild streetable combination but it's expensive and last but not least, it's a heavy ole beast and it takes a lot of grunt to motivate it. It please me greatly that your ole XS can smoke a 250 Ninja in a straight line...what about a 175 cc Huskavarna....OMG

[yamahansolo]

i never said anything about a gsxr! and if you read up a few i someone else said they got beat by a 600 katana. they run high 12's. also someone mentioned a mach 3... i am holding a july issue of motorcycle classics and it shows the mach 3 at 12.8 in the 1/4, it said it had a top speed of 114 mph. i have done that in 4th gear! also the 78 test has the 11 at 11.7 not 11.9. i am not an expert drag racer but 13 seconds is too slow. and not all the bike are tired. as i said mine just now got to 20,000 and.

and i took my airbox to the scale and it was 5 pounds. i don't know what kind you have but it has the chrome parts on it and it's pretty hefty. i weighed the stock xj exhaust i have on the floor and it was 28 pounds. the kerker i have weighs less than 10 gutted. i also dropped the seat grab rail.
i didn't get the pods because of the weight, i got them because of the sound. and the stock airbox is very restrictive. and yes the pods can cause some problems. my 90 300 zx essentially had the same thing i had a huge stillen popcharger intake this would cause a slight stumlbe at around 2,000 rpm's the solution was to adhere a special tool called duct tape to the bottom of the filter just a small peice and it would stop the stumble until it falls off...
any way i think that tc has a good mod. the stock airbox has some long velocity stacks in it. i plan on using them with the pod filters.

i only mentioned the 250 because my friend has one and we ride together.
i have a ton of magazines and i read as much info as i can about everything.
i could list 1/4 mi;e times all day as well. it'd be a waste. all i said was that depending on the rider you can beat some modern 600 cc bikes. they don't have 130 hp like someone said earlier. most of them have between 100-110 or so and they weigh around 430 wet. typically they only have about 40- 48 trq. i have owned a zx7 ninja and the 11 would not even be close! but i know for a fact it would smoke my 98 yzf600r of the line. of course i had it up a little over 140 the 11 won't go that fast.

and i am sorry if you think i sound disappointed. im not i just don't understand how someone can think i thought the 11 would outrun a gsxr 1000. duh, do you think i am stupid?
most of the guys i have raced have been at stop light launches. you typically don't get over 100 mph through town do you? i am sure most good running 11's would get to 80 before a 600 would. my whole entire point was that you need to define crotch rocket! a katana 600 is a poser! as well as that new idiotic looking fz6r or what ever it it. it looks like a suzuki to me. they could only get it to run in the 12's in the 1/4. it's a detuned fz6 with a full faring. the sv650's look fast but they are high 12's in the 1/4.


my tired old bike rode to Florida and back two months ago no problems at all. i have put about 13,000 miles on it. smoked a few vrods it's been fun.



that's all i got to say about that...

[Dan Hodges]

i never said anything about a gsxr! and if you read up a few i someone else said they got beat by a 600 katana. they run high 12's. also someone mentioned a mach 3... i am holding a july issue of motorcycle classics and it shows the mach 3 at 12.8 in the 1/4, it said it had a top speed of 114 mph. i have done that in 4th gear! also the 78 test has the 11 at 11.7 not 11.9. i am not an expert drag racer but 13 seconds is too slow. and not all the bike are tired. as i said mine just now got to 20,000 and.

and i took my airbox to the scale and it was 5 pounds. i don't know what kind you have but it has the chrome parts on it and it's pretty hefty. i weighed the stock xj exhaust i have on the floor and it was 28 pounds. the kerker i have weighs less than 10 gutted. i also dropped the seat grab rail.
i didn't get the pods because of the weight, i got them because of the sound. and the stock airbox is very restrictive. and yes the pods can cause some problems. my 90 300 zx essentially had the same thing i had a huge stillen popcharger intake this would cause a slight stumlbe at around 2,000 rpm's the solution was to adhere a special tool called duct tape to the bottom of the filter just a small peice and it would stop the stumble until it falls off...
any way i think that tc has a good mod. the stock airbox has some long velocity stacks in it. i plan on using them with the pod filters.

i only mentioned the 250 because my friend has one and we ride together.
i have a ton of magazines and i read as much info as i can about everything.
i could list 1/4 mi;e times all day as well. it'd be a waste. all i said was that depending on the rider you can beat some modern 600 cc bikes. they don't have 130 hp like someone said earlier. most of them have between 100-110 or so and they weigh around 430 wet. typically they only have about 40- 48 trq. i have owned a zx7 ninja and the 11 would not even be close! but i know for a fact it would smoke my 98 yzf600r of the line. of course i had it up a little over 140 the 11 won't go that fast.

and i am sorry if you think i sound disappointed. im not i just don't understand how someone can think i thought the 11 would outrun a gsxr 1000. duh, do you think i am stupid?
most of the guys i have raced have been at stop light launches. you typically don't get over 100 mph through town do you? i am sure most good running 11's would get to 80 before a 600 would. my whole entire point was that you need to define crotch rocket! a katana 600 is a poser! as well as that new idiotic looking fz6r or what ever it it. it looks like a suzuki to me. they could only get it to run in the 12's in the 1/4. it's a detuned fz6 with a full faring. the sv650's look fast but they are high 12's in the 1/4.


my tired old bike rode to Florida and back two months ago no problems at all. i have put about 13,000 miles on it. smoked a few vrods it's been fun.



that's all i got to say about that...

I gave figures for a Susuki GSX-R600 and the new Kaw 600 not the others and personally I don't know if you would get up to a hundred mph through town or not from an impromptu stop light street race as that's insane.

If you beat a V-Rod on a tired XS one of the following had to occur.
1. The V-Rod was junk.
2. The Rods pilot was not trying or was incompetent.
3. It wasn't a V-Rod but was a regular Harley.

In short, a tired XS is no match for a V-Rod if the pilot is trying and knows what he/she is doing.

[yamahansolo]

see you still argue??? the v rod is the neighbors! and i know it's a vrod.

too bad you aren't coming to the ralley this month because i'd let you ride mine! i am not trying to fight with you guys but there are plenty of other bikes and cars out there still on the road from the 70's and 80's and they run just fine. another example is my 86 radian. it weighed right under 400 pounds. i think they were about a 12.2 or 12.5 sec bike. this 11 would smoke the hell out of that thing! and the radian was in top condition. there are pics of it on this site somewhere. my friend at work who is 55 and owned the other bike i have laughed at you guys! he has a vstar 1100 jetted with a hyper charger and somekind of exhaust??? i forgot which, his bike isn't even close.
i rev mine to 8500 taking off several times a day. and it never misses a beat. how can you say it's tired...??? you believe what you want dan. i'll believe what i know and have seen. just for your info. i never hear the cam chain adjuster snap so i always have to pull it off to make sure it's not jammed. when i take it off the little stopper is only about 1/4 of the length of the adjustment. so my cam chain has stretched very little in 30 years!

i went back and read the article on this site about how the guy launched to get an 11.7 sec run. he reved it to 8 grand and let the clutch go! that's insane!!!

and i really mean you guys no disrespect but i ride this thing everyday to and from work! 8,000 rpms in first gear is scary !!! i have to hold on like hell to keep it from coming out of my hands!

[Ivan]

the stock airbox has some long velocity stacks in it. i plan on using them with the pod filters.

When I was fighting the stumbling issues, I replaced the pod filters I have with the stacks out of an airbox, and there was absolutely no difference to the bike.

For my pod installation, search the term "El Cheapo"

[trbig]

he reved it to 8 grand and let the clutch go! that's insane!!!

If you are suggesting he just dumped the clutch... that would result in either a stall or a flipped over bike.

8,000 rpms in first gear is scary !!! i have to hold on like hell to keep it from coming out of my hands!

I guess that depends.. Not meaning to offend YOU, but if you were to ride a modern bike, or even an old 2 stroke dirt bike (I have to lean over the handlebars in the first three gears to keep it from flipping) you'd see that these bikes really aren't that scary quick. I ride as you say you do daily as well. These bikes have decent power, but you have to keep the revs above at least 5k off the line to do any good with them. This requires feathering the clutch.. not just revving it and dumping it.

And as Dan stated.. .yes, you may beat a Vrod... but it's because you've beaten the rider, not the bike. Sorry if that offends your staunch defense of the XS.

Tod

[Bigfoot]

I always thought the XS was pretty fast as well. Then I got my 84 FJ. I was amazed at how much quicker it was. It is faster, quicker, lighter, and more nimble. And that is still old tech.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the XS. It is alot more comfortable to ride, more reliable, and can take me on a long trip with tons of stuff strapped to it. It handles real well in the twisties and still puts a smile on my face everytime I ride it.

[mxmikie]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cg-tSm0XZfI

[yamahansolo]

ok you obviously haven't read my list of bike owned...

from start to finish. 92 zx7, 79 xs750 special, 82 gpz750, 98 yzf600r, 85 vmax, 86 radian, 82 xj11, 79 standard 11. the point i was making the whole time is that yes a bike may theoretically be able to go faster it doesn't mean the rider can!

also mine pulls very hard from 2000 rpm's not 5. and the article said the guy reved it to 8 and dumped the clutch. it's on this site go read it if you don't beleive me.

also the vrods top speed is about 120, i raced my neighbor on the freeway the 11 will go over 120, i'v only had it up to 130 but i backed off because i think they only go to like 138 or so. i have had my 98 yzf600r up to 140 and that was scary. if you fall your toast!

i've ridden a couple of old 2 strokes and yes they pull like hell but then they stop at about 100 mph. 0-60 on those are amazing but they have no top end.

[trbig]

also mine pulls very hard from 2000 rpm's not 5.

LOL.. OK. Tell you what.. You leave the line at 2k, and I'll take off with the motor running up on the mains. How much money ya got?

We obviously aren't going to convince you that these old Yamahas aren't the speed demons you make 'em out to be, but everybody has a right to their opinions. I'm glad you are a bit scared of them at top speed. I wish I was... I find myself wanting more... and that's exactly why I won't get a newer bike.


Tod

[DGXSER]

I'm glad you are a bit scared of them at top speed. I wish I was... I find myself wanting more... and that's exactly why I won't get a newer bike.

OMG Tod, you DO think things out sometimes!! Now I have to reset my entire sense of human nature!

[trbig]

Human nature is what generally runs me, but when you twist the throttle and the motor starts screaming.. wind becomes deafening, and the curve signs fly by un-readable, and tires/brakes start smoking... I believe the human nature is pushed way to the back corner somewhere..

As the throttle eases off and speeds drop back to somewhere near the point where the mobile tax collectors may or may not decide to asses you... the human nature runs back to front and center screaming "What the hell was THAT all about!?!"


Tod

[TopCatGr58]

And as Dan stated.. .yes, you may beat a Vrod... but it's because you've beaten the rider, not the bike. Sorry if that offends your staunch defense of the XS.

Tod

Hey Tod,

A few years ago I did a rollon race with a guy on a V-rod, was doing about 50mph had it in 3rd, we punched it, he jumped a little ahead and I was right there, but didn't remember to shift, topped out at 8.5k, FINALLY remembered to shift to 4th, was catching up to him, but we had to shut it down. I was surprised at how quick it was. And I have 1st hand experience at DUMPING the clutch at 5 k, when I was at the race track trying to run the 1/4 mile, thought I was near the end of my clutch fanning process, and dumped it, and almost flipped the bike backwards onto myself!

Hey Chris, I'll see you at the Rally weekend after next, and we'll see if we can find some place to have a little run. I'm no racer, so there's a good chance you'll probably beat me, but it'll be fun to see what they'll do.
T.C.