Do you use the octy or not?

[mro]

strait on, off, reserve, non-vac petcocks.

There are some vanilla petcocks that will fit on an XS tank. Think they may need an adpter plate which might come with it.
Mikes XS used to have em.

mro

[Clerek]

I remember a mod...(from above...?)

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showpost.php?p=200030&postcount=6

I wonder if this would work for your petcock rebuild? I HATE how over priced these rebuild kits are. Before I got my special tank, I made my own rebuild kit out of some spare gasket that I had laying around. I did the mod above and went to the store and got a neoprene o-ring, put it where the o-ring goes on the special and everything worked fine. Maybe the neoprene wouldn't last as long, as I didn't really have it on the tank very long, but it held up to a full tank of gas on/off. Just have to remember to turn off the petcock (like on our modded/exed/screwed/abandoned bikes with not forsaken octy...)

-Rick

[trbig]

Hi Tod, but that be at least two......I still have the octopie's on my specials.

I was counting the people that have gone through a lot of work to REMOVE the octy. I know it was late/early, so I forgive you. Back down to one though...


Tod

[markb80]

[QUOTE=trbig;228815]Ummm.. That would be just one guy.. lol.

Innovation should not be discouraged, especially when what is suggested, helps newbies get the bike going and is reliable.

If the front outlet were prime and reserve (as I thought when I did that), that drawing would be the simplest and most reliable way to plumb it (that I have seen).

Here are the stats (as I understand):

Octopus - 8 fuel lines, 16 clips, 2 Ts, 1 vacuum line - hard to plumb and get line lengths right, and prone to kinking.

My way - 6 fuel lines, 12 clips, 2 Y's. Easier to plumb, no kinking at all.

Capping the front outlets - 4 fuel lines 8 clips, 2 objects to plug unused front outlets. Simpler, no kinking, but still takes 4 fuel lines and 8 clips and 2 objects to plug the front lines. It is simpler than my way, but not by an order of magnitude as implied by one guy.

Connecting front petcock outlets together and the back outlets direct to carbs - 3 fuel lines, 6 clips, no kinking. THE WINNER!!! (Or at least in my opinion and I didn't propose it).

But if the front outlets had been the reserve as I thought, the last two methods would have eliminated reserve.

I really recommend the original Yamaha petcock O-rings if you go manual. The K&L's are not quite the same size and make the petcock lever hard to turn. A little grease on the petcock lever O-rings seems to help also.

[trbig]

OR... two lines connected directly to the carbs. two clamps at the carbs, none on the petcocks.. just slip the line over the brass nipple. No caps on the front prime nipple... I just don't put it on prime.

2 lines, 2 clamps.. = THE WINNER!!

Innovation should not be discouraged, especially when what is suggested, helps newbies get the bike going and is reliable.

Innovation.. if it's complicated as hell.. will be discouraged if there's a much simpler solution.


Tod

[Pat Kelly]

I blocked the front nipple(s) on my petcocks (prime). I ran a hose from the other nipple(s) to each other (closed loop, keep reading). I then installed the stock 'T' fittings in this hose (both of them) right above the carb fuel 'T's. I then run hose down to the carbs. This way I can use just one, either, or both petcocks to feed fuel to all carbs.


Petcock > hose > T > hose < T < hose < Petcock
V V
hose hose
carb carb carb carb

[DGXSER]

OR... two lines connected directly to the carbs. two clamps at the carbs, none on the petcocks.. just slip the line over the brass nipple. No caps on the front prime nipple... I just don't put it on prime.

2 lines, 2 clamps.. = THE WINNER!!

I can name that tune with NO clamps and some cheap fuel line made by Briggs and Stratton from Home Depot. The yellow stuff, seals up tighter than a frogs butt and not a leak with no clamps used.

2 lines = THE WINNER SUPREME!!!

Innovation.. if it's complicated as hell.. will be discouraged if there's a much simpler solution.

Gotta agree with Tod on this one (yeah I know, call Guinness book of records!!) I am a fan of the KISS method of life. I tried routing my fuel lines all over kingdom come with fuel filters of several types and all I ever got was lack of fuel flow for it.

And yes my bike had the Octy when I got it and the PO always ran with the petcocks on PRIME. It has been on my workbench since about three weeks after I got the bike, and I never looked back....at the Octy that is. I always look back to see if Tod is about to run me down for only doing 70 in the 55 zone.

[markb80]

OR... two lines connected directly to the carbs. two clamps at the carbs, none on the petcocks.. just slip the line over the brass nipple. No caps on the front prime nipple... I just don't put it on prime.

2 lines, 2 clamps.. = THE WINNER!!




Innovation.. if it's complicated as hell.. will be discouraged if there's a much simpler solution.


Tod

Compared to the octo routing what I posted is simpler to the open-minded, and if the front outlets were reserve, it would have been required for reserve to work.

I would not leave the front oulets open. The rubber valves (round pieces with 4 holes) in petcocks degrade and sometimes fail so are not 100% reliable. That could leave you with a tank of gas on your floor. Or worse in a parking lot with smokers.

Also, in helping those who don't know these bikes, I think giving a thorough description is usable. A half described approach leaves them lost.

[markb80]

I'd always use a clip on the petcock outlets. Vinyl line will seem tight at first then harden, then leak or fall off. Rubber line will stretch and leak. It just depends on how many years you want the setup to last. Mine is going on 5 years, but I changed 2 lines once to route differently.

[trbig]

and if the front outlets were reserve

...Which you keep saying over and over, and which they aren't. And that's why we kept trying to show a simpler way.. not half explained at all. I told exactly what works and said yours was way too complicated.

As for the front prime nipples not plugged off... You'll (Usually) get a small leak before a catastrophic fail. If they are capped, you'll never know your petcocks are leaking and need repair.. until your float valves fail also. If they start to drip.. you know you need a petcock rebuild before you get gas in the oil.


Look.. you like your way you did it. I'm glad you're happy with your result, but it makes no sense to try to convince others to do something the hard way when an easy way works just as well. You did what you thought best for the way you thought the thing worked. Only problem is.. it doesn't work that way. And not understanding wny you still want to connect the front prime ports together... but not really wanting any more of the "Logic" at this point anyway??

The way you have it routed does work apparently, but it makes a really simple problem complicated... much like the original Octo in my opinion. Usually it's just engineers that do that. The ones at my job anyway.. Sure it works, but so does the 300 step Rube Goldberg machine when all you really wanted to do was crack the egg open into the pan. For some reason, it seems to hurt your feelings and you keep arguing for it (or anything else besides the simplest solution ) when your logic was flawed.

Sure.. maybe my reasoning on the petcock leaking is flawed and it might pour from the "Stop" position before a drip ever leaves the prime nipple... but at least I have a chance in seeing it VS. capping it. It's worked for almsot 4 years and nearly 40k miles.. so if it fails, I figure I got my money's worth. I may also have a flawed view on not using inline filters either and opting for a single line to the carbs. My petcock screens looked new, so I knew no big chunks were coming through.. unless I shave a piece of fuel line off installing it on a nipple. I just never saw any difference in the float bowl sediment from when I had them on.. to when I didn't.

So.. no, my logic isn't perfect.. but I sure don't get bent out of shape when someone points out my flaws. And trust me.. they are plentiful!

I'd always use a clip on the petcock outlets.

Then by all means... do so. You do it your way, we'll do it ours.

Rubber line will stretch and leak.

How many years do I need to wait until that happens? They're still snug when I take them off.. will it happen all at once? If/when it does.. wouldn't it be EASIER to trim an inch off the line and plug it back up and go again for those that prefer not to clamp?


Tod

[markb80]

1. I'm not bent out of shape, I just wanted the details to come out for people who start working on a special like I did 8 years ago, and wind up spending hours more than once getting fuel lines to work on the octo before they even have time to figure out how it works (to get rid of it).

2. I stated in the previous post that I don't suggest that people use the drawing I provided. That drawing would have been simplest if the front outlet were both prime and reserve, and you want to have a reserve. But it is not the simplest as others have stated that the front outlet is only prime, not prime and reserve.

3. As a rule I avoid criticizing others approaches, just stick to facts. At least now, hopefully we all know how to get rid of the octo with detailed info about what needs to be connected to what.

As for fuel lines, as they age and get exposed to heat and moisture they lose flexibility. I always use a clip, but that's just me, I don't like fire. I think the simplest and safest method is to connect the front two petcock outlets with fuel hose, and run rear outlets,to carbs criss-crossing underneath, passing lines between intake boots 1-2 and 3-4. I think people can follow that.

[trbig]

LOL.. Again.. what's the purpose of the hose connecting the two primes? (Besides yet another line to take off before removing your tank) So you inadvertantly turn your petcocks a little past the on (Or run).. towards the prime. Now you have a tube full of fuel just constantly sitting there with no escape. A rough bump.. that line breaks or comes loose.. and a whole line full of fuel hits your hot motor. Yup.. seems safer than capping them to me.


Tod

[markb80]

I would connect them because I have a midnight special that spent a lot of time painting and touching up the engine paint. I don't like getting gas on my paint if I accidentally turn the petcock to prime.

But better yet. JB Weld a screw into the front outlets of the petcocks to shut them off. I have used JB Weld to fix tanks, make plugs and fix a broken float post. Some say gas weakens it, but I've never seen it happen, not a bit. Epoxy should hold up to gas, that's why the best tank liners are epoxy. I covered the cam chain adjuster plug with a coating of JB Weld also to keep it from blowing out someday.

The only problem with connecting the petcock front outlets that I can think of is that it reminds me of my first bike an RD350. It had a hose to let gas go from one side to the other. Since it was the lowest point in the tank the moisture would collect there instead and cause nasty varnishy gas to sit in the hose. The hose seemed to dry rot pretty quick, but maybe that's because it sat right above the cylinder head.

So how about just JB Welding the front outlet shut? Or maybe some other epoxy which is confirmed gasoline resistant.... Fuel tank patching epoxy putty maybe... hey that might work.

But do this only if the front outlet is ONLY prime. I could have sworn it was reserve also, but must have been mistaken.

[trbig]

I would connect them because I have a midnight special that spent a lot of time painting and touching up the engine paint. I don't like getting gas on my paint if I accidentally turn the petcock to prime.

And the reason a simple cap wouldn't do the same thing is??? (Minus the line full of fuel that you're going to probably dump on it every time you remove the tank. )

C'mon.. it's OK.. you can admit it. Say it with me. SIMPLICITY. I knew you could..


Tod

[markb80]

Plugging the petcock means one less line to mess with. Plugging the line is fine, I thought you said you would leave it open. A wire tie and screw would be a good enough plug.

But I don't believe the petcock was a case of over-engineering at Yamaha. This looks to me like a clear case of marketing telling engineering what to do. I bet it went down like this back in 1978/79 at Yamaha....

Marketing says: "GET RID OF THOSE BIG UGLY VACUUM PETCOCKS!.

Meanwhile the US Gov says: "YOU MUST HAVE VACUUM SHUT OFF ON ALL FUEL VALVES!"

So engineering was screwed. Only option was to use a single vacuum diaphragm under the tank for both petcocks. So for 30 years engineering at Yamaha has been cussed at by all those who tangle with the dreaded octopus.