God, I hate electrical... (battery not charging)

[Lucien Harpress]

Okay, somewhat major update.

My dad and I checked out the electronics together tonight, with two realizations.

-First, my tach quit. This hasn't happened before.

-Second, I'm getting no voltage (AC or DC) coming out of the alternator. I'm checking the green/brown wires coming out of the alternator. If I check the OTHER side of the connection, I get a DC reading if the engine is running or not (probably from the battery).

Did this mean that, over the last few days, my alternator just crapped out?

[XJOK2PLAY]

Hey, Lucien...

If you're anything like me, I hate the "learning process" most of the time... especially when I'm trying to learn something that appears to be overwhelming - and all those miles of multicolored, hidden, loomed wires can be just that! Especially when I feel alone and on my own with no one to turn to for help.

But, when I finally conquer it, when I finally get it right and it's fixed... AND I DID IT... greatest feeling in the world. Undescribeable. And I DON"T forget what I've learned, when I learn it that way... "The School of Hard Knocks".

Don't misunderstand, I love a good challenge... up to a certain point.

Just hang in there, we're with you. And it's gonna be awesome when you get it figured out! You have a great support team here, don't forget.

Another suggestion I could make would be to grab a good schematic, and trace the wires to learn what goes where... if you haven't already got one. They can be a real lifesaver.
If you don't have a Clymer's manual, or the like... CatatonicBug's got some you can download.

Try to do that bypass test TC suggested, too.

Just remember... some of us make our living troubleshooting and repairing these kinds of electrical mysteries... (but I do think it's easier in a house than hidden on a motorcycle...)

People tell me all the time..."There's no way you could pay me enough to mess w/ electricity". To them I reply " And there's no way anyone could pay me enough to be a plumber."

Keep pluggin', you'll make it!
Bob

[XJOK2PLAY]

Hey, Lucien...
I guess we both posted just now about the same time!

No Tach usually means blown stator.

Easy fix... provided there wasn't a short in the wiring harness somewhere that caused it.

Even for the guy with no experience... 20 minute swap.

You can unplug the stator from the harness connector under the gas tank... put you meter in ohm's... and check continuity between the 3 wires in the connector... open means blown.

I'd start cruising ebay and get one. Mine cost $20 total & took 20 minutes to swap... working great now. They do that sometimes... just quit working.

[XJOK2PLAY]

One more thing...

Just be sure to get one for a standard, and NOT an XJ... they are different. XS's are brushless, XJ's use brushes.

(Unless you want to upgrade and gain 6 more amps of power, that is.)

I think 81XSProject just posted recently about successfully swapping an XS for a XJ stator to upgrade.

But for a straight swapout... get one for a Standard.

[3Phase]

Okay, somewhat major update.

My dad and I checked out the electronics together tonight, with two realizations.

-First, my tach quit. This hasn't happened before.

-Second, I'm getting no voltage (AC or DC) coming out of the alternator. I'm checking the green/brown wires coming out of the alternator. If I check the OTHER side of the connection, I get a DC reading if the engine is running or not (probably from the battery).

Did this mean that, over the last few days, my alternator just crapped out?

Lucien, there is no magic to understanding wires and electricity. It takes a lot of <adjusts funny hat> work, study, and patience.

You said the tachometer was working before you and your dad did the tests? Did you leave the small 2-wire connector with the Green and Brown wires connected or did you unplug it and try to check for voltage at the connector? If the Green and Brown wires aren't connected to the regulator/rectifier the alternator won't work at all.

The Brown wire at the regulator/rectifier supplies 12 volts to the stator and the Green wire is the return from the stator to ground. It makes the stator a working electromagnet instead of a large coil of wire.

The voltage regulator part of the regulator/rectifier 'regulates' the return connection to ground from the stator via the Green wire and essentially makes the stator a large, variable, electromagnet.

More ground = stronger magnet ~= more voltage from the alternator
Less ground = weaker magnet ~= less voltage from the alternator

Make sure your battery is fully charged, put everything back together, then run a jumper from the Green wire at the regulator to ground and check your voltage with the engine running.

If your tachometer works and the voltage rises with the engine RPM your alternator is working and the regulator (or the battery) is bad.

If the tach doesn't work or the voltage doesn't come up to 14.5/15 volts with the Green wire grounded then you'll have to check your connections again (the tach was working before you did any testing), the alternator field windings and the rectifier portion of the regulator/rectifier. That can wait until after you've tested the regulator.

Ground the Green wire and check the voltage with the engine running then move on to the more complicated tests.


Regards,

Scott

[Lucien Harpress]

Talk about a facepalm moment. No, the connector was unplugged when I was doing the tests.

Alright, let's try a take-two tomorrow, WITH the connectors, well, connected.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Lucien,

Here are couple of photos:

This first one is of the OEM reg/rect, the seat would be to the right, the forks to the left as viewing the photo. NOTE those wires that are secured with the right bolt on the R/R. MAX recently posted about his not charging, and after removing the R/R, cleaning the R/R housing, frame contact areas, bolts, and those wires, and put it back together, his was charging just fine!?

In this second photo I'm showing the new connectors from GEEZER's replacemment R/R unit, you can see the nice green wire with the brown and black going into the NEW connector, but just above that you can see the OEM connector and the green/brown wires!



T.C.

[Lucien Harpress]

You know why I hate electrical?

Because I went out today, re-connected the connection I was testing yesterday (and NOTHING ELSE), and then got the following readings off the battery:

Everything off- 12 volts.
Key on- 11.8ish volts.
Motor on revved to 3K RPM- 14.4 volts.

So, add to the fact that I don't know what my problem is, it NOW seems that I don't have a problem!

This was, admittedly, without the headlight connected. After re-connecting the headlight I checked everything again, and the readings seemed very similar.

I still don't know if the problem is solved or not. I'll keep an eye on it for the next couple days. If I get the money I might spring for the Geezer replacement reg/rec anyway. Too me, no battery charge under 2.5K is just dumb.

I hate electrical...

[Larrym]

Aha!! (or not..)

Lucien,

Getting your face/fingers in there and doing something appears to have struck paydirt, eh? That's the point here: even investigating the system has benefits. It is a standard technique in troubleshooting electrical to pull apart connectors (with the power off...mind you!), push them back together, then see what (if anything...) changes. (Many an electrical problem has been "fixed" just by pulling and then "re-seating" a board or component. Yup! It's a standard practice especially used in older equipment or devices which are in an outside environment.

If this "worked" and cured your charging system then I'd advise making sure that it stays fixed by going back in and pulling the connectors apart once more. With the wires and contact points still inside the plastic housings your eyes can only see so much but you should see contact areas that look OLD. (Electrons see them the same way: like a bridge they gotta cross but wish they didn't have to...) It's much better to take the time to figure out just how to get those little connections out of those housings where you can really clean them up with some carbide sandpaper, blow out the dust (Do electrons sneeze??), and carefully put the wires/connectors back into the original locations. (Don't trust Memory to do this: put masking tape on all the wires/housings and Label!)

As long as the bike is in the garage and you've got the CD player going, You just might feel inclined to continue with some of the other connectors either in the immediate area or those that are directly involved with the charging system. I mean, where there's one skunk in the woodpile there might be others. (Just consider that you could be paying a shop $75 an hour to do this.)

There's another technique the "Pro's" use but its very advanced: wiggling the wires while testing the system with a meter. You can work up to this level by practicing the beginners technique of rubbing your stomach with one hand while patting your head with the other one. (I can do this less than 50% of the time...)

[3Phase]

Great! It works! Okay, not so great because you don't know why the battery ran down in the first place.

Right now it looks like the battery is low and the alternator is working its little windings off trying to charge it. As The Wiz wrote up-thread a few posts you need to fully charge the battery and have it load-tested before you dig into the charging system.


Regards,

Scott

[thewiz]

could it be that ...

don't know why the battery ran down in the first place.

the key got left on ??

[fredintoon]

You know why I hate electrical? - - - - I hate electrical...

Hi Lucien,
there is a way to avoid electrical altogether.
Ignition? Convert to diesel. (as a byproduct, that also gets rid of carb synching as diesels are fuel injected)
Starting? Well you'll never kickstart a diesel so you need to fit either a flywheel or a Kauffmann starter.
Lights? Acetylene lights worked in the 1920s and can once more.
Signals? Acetylene again, with a mechanical rotating blind to make the signal look like it's flashing.
Best to just suck it up and keep cleaning the connectors, right?

[Lucien Harpress]

The ONLY thing I can think is that the battery may have run dead for one of a few reasons.

-I used to run the bike at rather low revvs, down around 3K. I'm not sure if I've been running it too low to charge, or just too low to charge what I have.

-I started running the bike on the high beam during the day to help with visibility. Maybe putting too much strain on the system?

-My front blinkers are wired up with running lights which turn on as soon as the key is. Until further notice, these will be unplugged.

-The day it died, I was piddly-dinking through parking lots at REALLY low revs. This might have been enough to kill the battery.

As for the other suggestions- not only would I actually ride a diesel-powered bike, my dad has quite the collection of Coleman lanterns I could borrow for signals. Tempting, almost......

[boyat68]

Lucien:

Just piddly dinking would be enough to keep the battery from going flat. I believe that you actually have a weak cell in that battery (internal resistance to ground) that is reducing the battery voltage and not allowing the battery to fully charge and hold the charge. Try charging the battery fully and measure with a volt/ohm meter. Let set over night and check the voltage the next morning. If the voltage has fallen a full volt or more, then get the battery load tested as that indicates a failing cell or cells.