God, I hate electrical... (battery not charging)

[Lucien Harpress]

Okay, straight to the point:

-My battery isn't charging.

-I don't know diddly-poop about electrical systems.

90% of the information I've seen (and going to relate) I've gotten from the Tech-Tips article on this site about troubleshooting the charging system found here:

http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/tech-t...eshooting.html

I've also searched other threads on here with the same issues, and most of it goes RIGHT over my head.

I finally got to take a voltmeter to a lot of the connections, so here's what I found:

-My battery, with everything off, reads around 12 volts.
-My battery, with the engine running and revved, reads around 12 volts.
-Concerning the brown/green wire connection, with the bike turned on, the brown wire reads around 10-11 volts, and the green wire reads around 1 or 2.
-With the bike on and running, the readings are nearly exactly the same.
-As far as I can tell, the alternator IS working, because I'm getting a magnetic field off the right-hand cover.
-A day or two ago (after I started having electrical problems), I could tell a difference in headlight brightness between idle and revved (brighter as it revved). Checking today, I'm not sure if I could see a difference.

As I said, I know nearly nothing about electrical. What's infuriating is that I rode it for about a week, and now this happens.

If I could get some type of step-by-step process to help me out with this, I would be VERY appreciative.

(Remember- I BARELY know what an alternator is, I sorta get what a regulator is supposed to do, have no clue what a stator or pickup coil is, and have no idea how to find 90% of them. I really am starting from scratch.)

[oldyam80sg]

You said with everything off the battery read around 12 volts and then you said with the engine revved around 12 volts-are those 2 readings the same? When you rev up the engine voltage on battery should go up.If it doesn't is the battery good?If it is brand new can sometimes be the batteryTake it to auto zone or similar store and tell them to load test the battery.Can save you alot of trouble for further testing.Do this and get back to us.

[XJOK2PLAY]

Lucien,
I'm sending you a PM...

[DGXSER]

Hey Lucien, I am a little more than dangerous at electrical, but I do recall running the charging test on Thunderstruck some time ago. With the bike at idle, you should get around 12.5 volts at the battery, with it revved up to around 3-4K you should be getting 14v or above.

If you are gettign 12v at 3-4k then I would suspect the regulator rectifier I believe. You could also try cleaning all the usual suspect connectors behind the fuse box, the grounds including the rectifier body to the frame at both ends. I am sure someone more knowledgable will correct a couple things I may have wrong there, but that is my best recolection of how this stuff works.

[fredintoon]

Hi Lucien,
I only loathe and despise mine.
(Rant begins)
My BSA only needs 7 wires for all it's electrical needs; OK 10 if I want signals. Why in the accurséd name of the Price of Darkness does my XS11 need a wiring harness as thick as a donkey's dick and more mystery modules than a dog has fleas???? When WILL I have suffered enough???
(rant ends.)
You are not alone.
Carefully reading posts from the wiring wizards, diligent use of a good quality multimeter, rigorous cleaning and the dielectric greasing every single last connection and switch on the entire bike should see things right for you. Acquiring the patience of a Saint will also help.

[tarzan]

Like DGXSER said,
Unbolt the fuse box and pull to the side so you can get to the connector with the three white and one yellow wire.That connector often melts or corrodes.
Also test those leads with a multimeter.
If you have a short it can smoke your reg/rectrifier.

[thewiz]

Agree with others that ...

electrical systems can be annoying. Charging systems, on the other hand, are a little easier to diag. First you must be certain beyond any doubt that the battery is capable of accepting and holding a charge and load.

To do that, begin by giving the battery a long, slow, low amp charge charge. Then check the electrolyte levels of each individual cell and the specific gravity with a hydrometer. DO NOT top off with tap water but instead, top off with acid or distilled water. Straight tap water can kill a cell rendering the battery useless. A hydrometer is one of those glass tubes with the floating colored balls, Lucien. Note the results.

Then, beg, borrow or buy a load tester. If you don't have a buddy from whom you can borrow one, the 50 amp model here will be fine. http://search.harborfreight.com/cpis...rd=load+tester I consider a load tester one of my 'can't do without most' tools ... usefull constantly if you tinker with vehicles of any kind.

If the results of these two tests are correctly interpreted, the battery can then be condemned or eliminated as the problem. The load test meter can also test the charging system with the motor running and the effects of a load on the system. Dynamic testing of (motor running) charging systems can only be done reliably with 'good' battery, ie, one that holds a load and reads within the limits on the meter.

Frankly, if a motorcycle battery is more than two years old, it is automatically suspect. Even if it is BRAND new, as was found out by another member here recently, it can still be bad.

[CatatonicBug]

-As far as I can tell, the alternator IS working, because I'm getting a magnetic field off the right-hand cover.

This does NOT tell you the alternator is working. I agree that the battery is much more likely to be the problem than the alternator, but an alternator IS a magnet that spins inside a coil of copper wire. That produces the electric current that runs/charges the bike. So, the fact that there is a magnetic field simpley means that the rotor still exists, not that the alternator is working.

[Ivan]

The magnetic field coming from the cover DOE NOT guarantee a charging alternator. On these bikes there is a coil in the center that acts as a magnet, an armature that rotates and disrupts the magnetic field pushing electrons around in the stator coil which is on the outside of the armature. The voltage regulator senses the system voltage and adjusts the current to the field coil to keep the system from undercharging or over charging. The regulator also has a rectifier bridge which turn the AC current from the stator to DC current.

The magnetic pull only proves there is some current passing through the field coil. It does not prove there is enough, or that the stator is actually doing its job as well.

Another easy test you can do with just a voltmeter is called a ripple test. With the bike running use your voltmeter on the AC setting and check for any AC voltage. usually under 1 VAC is acceptable. If any more is getting through, then your rectifier has failed. What this means is that the system has a voltage that varies, say from 9-15 volts, and your voltmeter averages it out as 12V, and nothing ever really charges up.

Electricity has a fair amount of wizardry to it. It does take a lot of base theory on EMF and a working knowledge of the V=IR and P=IE laws and how to apply them. Unfortunately, there are rarely any "typical" fixes in an electrical system.

[randy]

Electricity has a fair amount of wizardry to it.

Does that mean we have to wear those funny hats?

[thewiz]

Ya' mean ...

wear those funny hats?

Everybody DOESN"T???

[Ivan]

Does that mean we have to wear those funny hats?

Yeah, mine is made from an old confederate flag and I have a necklace made out of one of those plastic things that holds a six pack, only one of the holes is still intact to hold my Bud Light talisman.

[Larrym]

Spookwork...NOT!!

Lucien,

I agree it would be nice if charging systems were self diagnosing but so far there isn't a version of "Kitt" from Night Rider for bikes. Instead we the owners have to go through the learning curve for the charging system. It's that or we can farm it out to a professional mechanic who may/may not start swapping out rectifiers, alternators, and batteries in an expensive "cherry-picking"/guessing game.

Troubleshooting is not a linear process with a straight line from the beginning to the end. It is full of twists and turns, dead ends, and loops. That being said, the charging system may appear complicated but in reality is has only the minimum of components and connections. With a multimeter you can check each component/connection. You just start somewhere...anywhere and then go until the tests show you've found the offending part which sent everything sideways.

Don't fall for the notion that this process can only be done by someone who has special training or skills which came from geniuses/religious orders/otherworldly sources. (As in, "The person who can fix this must be so smart its SPOOKY!") It is understandable by the average person.

Remember: The best equipment for troubleshooting is built right into your face.

Good hunting!

[Lucien Harpress]

Okay. As of right now I have yet to take any more electrical readings (will probably do some of that tonight or tomorrow), but in the meantime I'll try to answer a few questions brought up.

-Fuses. The P.O. already re-wired the fusebox with newer fuses. The only issue here is that one wire was loose, and if it came undone the tach wouldn't work. Soldered that one back together, and seems to work fine. Charging system still didn't work after this.

-Right side magnetic field. Okay, so this is no indication if the alternator is working. It's there, thought, and I'm just giving out as much information as I can.

-Connections. Checked the two connections behind the fuse box (Green/Brown wires and three White wires). Both look intact, clean (cleaned them both), with no evidence of melting or shorting.

-Battery. Battery is less than four months old (bought it new when I bought the bike). As you said, this is no indication of quality. I can get it tested this week (Tuesday or Thursday) to be sure it's working.

-Regulator/Rectifier. Okay, dumb question- where the heck are these located? From what I gather they're under the gas tank somewhere, but what am I looking for? Like I said, I'm starting from complete scratch.

XJOK2PLAY sent me a few PMs that gave me a few things to see if I could check on the regulator/rectifier situation. In the meantime, like I said, I'm going to get a few more readings and get the battery checked out.

I have a basic, basic, BASIC understanding of electricity, which isn't helping here. I sort of know the difference between AC and DC current, basically know what ohms are, and know that you need a complete circuit for anything to work. Beyond that, though- nothing. Which is why this has been, and will probably continue to be, a great adventure.

[DGXSER]

Baby steps

Just liek the question abotu eating an elephant, one step at a time will get you there. I am like you only maybe a bit more informed on electrical but that just means I have to be careful I do nto delude myself into thinking I know something about it.

I know I have seen TC state more than once that if your power is on and you have a magnetic field on the right side cover, pulls a feeler gage up to it or the like, then your alternator is creating a magnetic field.

The regulator/rectifier sits under the gas tank on top of the frame and looks like a somewhat bright aluminum finned box that is about 4-5" about square and maybe an inch or two deep. IT is held on by two screws oe at the top and one at the bottom and has some electrical connectors hooked to it. Past that, I do not have a clue! Other than it regulates power and rectifies power from AC to DC. HTH