tubeless verse tubes

[Dennyz]

I just experienced something that has me rethinking my tubeless tires. I hit a rock going 70mph and bent the rim. The tire instantly lost it's air, resulting in a crash. If I would have had a tube in my front wheel, would I have been able to avoid the ensuing crash? I crashed because my front tire lost its air and I lost control. Of course, we can not know how it may have turned out, but it makes me wounder. I hit the rock with both front and rear wheels. My front is a tubeless (on a tubeless rim) and my rear is a tubed. The front went flat, the rear did not.

Most all modern bike are tubeless and hitting a rock like I did is probably a fluke. It does make me wonder, however.

[Pat Kelly]

You can't avoid every possible bad situation. There's no way to know if the front would have gone flat no matter if tube or less. Same with the rear tire.
I converted my E to tubeless mostly to make fixing a flat on the rear easier (hardbags). I keep a can of Fix-a-Flat and plugs for quick easy fixes. When travelling long distance I also carry a front tube (and tire levers). A front tube can be used in the rear wheel in a pinch. A tube can be used in tubeless tires.
Whatever's needed to get me back to civilization for proper repairs.

[Pat Kelly]

I do still have the tubetype front wheel if you want it for the cost of shipping

[Dennyz]

You can't avoid every possible bad situation

I agree. Probable post crash analysis going on. I am stuck here with a bum right shoulder and arm. Not much else to do, except heal.

[Elevener]

It doesnt look like a spoked rim in your avatar picture.I thought these mags were indestructable. Must have hit really hard.

Good luck healing!

[latexeses]

Dennyz,

I think that is a great question. Would your tire have gone flat with a tube? Did the impact just take the front rim out and not the tire?
If that was the case it would make a strong case for having the back-up.

If it wasn't a rock but a simple puncture a tube would make a simple plug fix impossible (I think). I would think a puncture would be more common. Then I think it would be a liability to have the tube. I have never run any run-flat tires and don't even know if they exist for bikes but I bet they cost $$$$$.

I guess it would depend if you mostly drive on mountain roads with scarps that shed rim bustin' sized rocks.

[fredintoon]

I just experienced something that has me rethinking my tubeless tires. I hit a rock going 70mph and bent the rim. The tire instantly lost it's air, resulting in a crash. If I would have had a tube in my front wheel, would I have been able to avoid the ensuing crash? I crashed because my front tire lost its air and I lost control. Of course, we can not know how it may have turned out, but it makes me wounder. I hit the rock with both front and rear wheels. My front is a tubeless (on a tubeless rim) and my rear is a tubed. The front went flat, the rear did not.
Most all modern bike are tubeless and hitting a rock like I did is probably a fluke. It does make me wonder, however.

Hi Dennyz,
Consider that picking up a nail in a front tire is a far more likely event than hitting a big rock in the road. A nail in a tubeless tire will most likely give a slow leak vs the instant flat you get with a nail in a tube tire.
Most likely an impact great enough to bend a Yamaha cast rim would as likely have burst a tube as to deflate a tubeless. It's likely that the initial hit on the front absorbed enough energy that the rear took a lesser hit which let the rear tire stay inflated and the rear rim stay unbent.
BTW, in your search for a replacement front wheel, any XS series cast front will do to replace your bent one, from XS650 on up, they are all the same.

[trbig]

So something ripped through a stout thick tire... or at least mashed it back into the rim with enough force to blow it out and bend your rim, and you think having that microscopic thin sheet of rubber tube may have helped?

And Pat, if you ever have a flat, I don't suggest using Fix-a-Flat AND a plug. With that plug on the inside, every time it rolls around, it splashes like a paddle through the Fix-a-Flat liquid and makes a hell of a vibration and bounce. A thin tack? I'd use the fix-a-flat until I could get a patch and re-balance. Something thicker like a nail? I use the plugs.

Some shops won't fix a motorcycle flat.. and some riders won't ride on a repaired tire.


Tod

[Jerry]

Your assumption is that the tube would have not blown out in the same circumstance, an idea I find highly suspect. The tube would not have been able to remain intact if it was forced into the gap between the bead and rim.

[dbeardslee]

Unless, of course, the force of the impact broke the bead, deflating the tire and allowing the damage to the wheel. I feel much better with a tube up front. Glad you're OK Denny - that's some scary stuff.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Denny,

Was that a rock, or a boulder?? Are you sure hitting the rock is what caused the rim bend, or the resultant crash where the wheel might have hit something else, don't know the specifics of the wreck, whether there was a curb or other big things on the side of the road that the wheel could have hit??

But, it would have probably PINCHED the tube if it hit with enough force to compress the tire against the rim and then bend the rim, and so the tube would have probably lost air anyways.

T.C.

[Dennyz]

I agree with all of you. It is difficult to pick apart a situation and make a determination if one thing where different, would the out come be significantly different.

The rock was big. I could not believe it when I saw it. I had probably 75 feet at 70mph to analyse and react. The rock was approximately 6"-8" diameter. I remember make two decisions. First to avoid, wasn't gonna happen. Not enough time. Second to survive the impact. I have no doubt the rock bent the rim. The impact tossed me and the bike completely off the ground. I remember the impact of the landing. From then on I was riding a wild bull. The slower I got the more violent the ride.

These rims are tough, I suspect the impact would have taken out the tube also.

The whole ordeal was a series of circumstance that normally would not have occurred in concert. Isn't that the definition of an "accident"?

[Dennyz]

broken rim

Before I left Lewiston, my cousin and I wanted to see if the tire would seat up and hold air. If for no other reason than to make it easier to get in the back of the rental van.

The rim was slightly bend on the left side at the bead lip. Knowing how tough this wheels are, I was surprised to see it bent. We made several attempts, but could not get the tire to pop back on the bead. We were loosing too much air. We sprayed soapy water around the bead area to see where all the air was going. To my amazement, the air was leaking out of a 2" crack along the rim's base on the left side between the spokes. THAT WAS ONE TOUGH ROCK!

This makes it official, there was no way my bike was going to be ridden away from the crash scene.

Fortunately I have a replace rim.

[rickmc2000]

Tube vs Tubeless

How can i know for sure if I can go Tubeless? Both of my wheels are one piece cast aluminum.

[dbeardslee]

Tubeless rims will have "Tubeless" stamped inside one of the spokes.