Leaking oil from the starter?

[CatatonicBug]

When I was in Kansas City last weekend, Bigfoot, Russ79, and I found what we thought was the source of the oil all over the left side of my bike. It looked like there was a leak at the seal between the engine and the Middle Drive case. So, yesterday, I removed the entire rear end, and the middle drive, and re-sealed that joint. I gave it a bath, and washed all the oil off, thinking that was the end of it. Well, I rode to church this morning, and all was good, until I got off, and leaned it onto the side stand!

As soon as I leaned it over, oil started draining from just under the end of the starter housing (red arrow)! I don't think I have ever removed that cover, so I'm concerned about whether it is logical that oil would be coming from that location. Can anyone make sense of this leak?

[3Phase]

There are three possibilities.

Most likely:
The large o-ring that goes around the outside of starter nose where it plugs into the engine case to keep engine oil from leaking around the outside of the starter nose.

Less likely:
The small seal/sligner on the starter motor shaft inside the starter itself that keeps engine oil from leaking into the starter motor.

So, you dated Murphy's sister too, didn't you:
Both the o-ring and the inner seal are bad.


Regards,

Scott

[CatatonicBug]

Ok, so to fix it, do I need to remove the whole starter assy, or just the cap on the left side of the bike?

[3Phase]

Remove the entire starter and see if the o-ring is hard and flat/broken.

To check the starter itself: Loosen the long bolts that hold the starter together and carefully pull the nose off of the starter motor and see if there's oil in it. Don't remove the outer end cover unless you want to spend some fun time putting the starter brushes back over the commutator.


Regards,

Scott

[CatatonicBug]

Thanks for the warning So, do I need to look for #8 or #17? Or something else altogether?

[3Phase]

#17

#17 should be the one for the starter nose.

#8 is a dust and water seal to keep 'stuff' out of your brushes and off the commutator.

It's not fun putting it back together but if you take it apart you should check the brushes, clean the commutator and lightly grease the reduction gears in the nose. The #8 o-ring and the brushes don't like to go back together under that pretty aluminum cover.


Regards,

Scott

[CatatonicBug]

Yep, I think you nailed it. I took out the 3 bolts that hold the starter in, slid it out, and found a nice little stream of oil flowing directly out of the opening in the engine. The O-ring was a bit flat, so I assume that's the problem. Unfortunately, I waited until after 8 tonight to do this, and all the local auto parts stores close AT 8 on Sundays. I put it back together as-is, and I'll go looking again tomorrow. Thankfully, it's not difficult to get to. Bike Bandit offers that o-ring for almost $15! I'm hoping I can find a suitable replacement for a bit cheaper locally.

[3Phase]

Alright! The simple fix! It's like having an (Easy) button.

Hopefully you can find a 15 cent o-ring instead of the $15 o-ring. That's just ridiculous.


Regards,

Scott

[CatatonicBug]

Yeah, except now I'm kicking myself that I tore the whole rear end and middle drive apart yesterday, only to discover it could have been a 10-minute fix, if I had only looked in the right place... At least the rear end is now properly lubed! Looked like the PO had tried to use the zert fitting on the final drive too. Lots of grease on the OUTSIDE of the spline coupling...

[SFerinTEXAS]

Seems to me that your oil level must be way high for oil to flow out there. Just seems to me.

[3Phase]

See? It was a good thing you had that oil leak -- saved your rear!

It may have been greased correctly. The book says to grease the splines, then pump a couple of ounces of grease into the fitting to fill the space. I did it by the book on my bike and the grease crawled out of the coupler and up the driveshaft all the way to the yoke.

I was going to find a seal that would fit into the axle tube and over the drive shaft but after thinking about it for a while (a long while, actually) I'm going to get some of that waxed rope packing like the stuff used for pumps and rear main bearing oil seals and stuff it around the drive shaft to keep it from happening again.

I still can't believe $15 for one o-ring. They hit their heads!


Regards,

Scott

[CatatonicBug]

Seems to me that your oil level must be way high for oil to flow out there. Just seems to me.

Nope. Checked the oil level, only to watch it drop on a weekly basis. And no, I don't check it on the side stand. The oil flings around all over in there, and those gears get just as much as any of the others. I dunno - maybe my vent hose isn't venting very well, and there is a bit of positive pressure pushing some out past the flattened o-ring. My vent hose has some kind of valve in it (installed by the PO), and I just left it there. Maybe I'll look at getting a new piece of hose (without a valve) when I get an o-ring.

I still can't believe $15 for one o-ring. They hit their heads!

Bikebandit is notoriously high-priced though. If I can find a part elsewhere, it's always cheaper.

[trbig]

Yup.. you may be right. If they used a normal automotive PCV valve, they get stopped up pretty easy. You need just a small filter back there. You're O-ring may be ok.. just the weak point for the pressure right now. Take that valve off and go for a ride and see if it still does it. Just don't ride in the rain or down a dusty road until you get a filter on there.


Tod

[CatatonicBug]

Yup.. you may be right. If they used a normal automotive PCV valve, they get stopped up pretty easy. You need just a small filter back there. You're O-ring may be ok.. just the weak point for the pressure right now. Take that valve off and go for a ride and see if it still does it. Just don't ride in the rain or down a dusty road until you get a filter on there.

Well, I still have the stock airbox, and the hose routes up to the front of the airbox. Maybe I'll do that though... Since all my sources say that the o-ring is going to cost right around $10-15! A piece of hose can't cost THAT much, could it??

[trbig]

If you have the stock airbox, take off that valve and plug it up to the airbox.

I don't know how many miles are on your motor, but after a while, you'll start to get a lot of blow-by that may include some oil drips. Could he have installed that valve to try to help prevent oil from clogging the air filter?

Tod