Down for the count?

[Varnae]

Please pardon the length of this post. This has been an ongoing issue since last Friday when I first posted in the SWOXS group. Now I’m opening the issue up for everyone’s advice…

I rode the bike from my office at work, to the MSF class. About a mile from work something near the front of the engine near the #3 cylinder started rattling. It sounded like a chain rattling around. I had not even gotten the rpm's past 4.5K so I wasn't revving it or pushing it hard at all. I immediately pulled over into a parking lot and shut it down. Smoke started coming from the exhaust. I let it sit and cool for a bit and then started it back up. Everything sounded fine so I headed out to the class. As I was riding I looked in my mirror and noticed that it looked kinda smoky behind me, but I wasn't sure if it was smoke or just a smudge on my mirror. The next stop light that I came to, I was pretty much enveloped in blue smoke. Not horrible enough to choke me or anything, but still pretty bad. I didn't have a choice but to complete my trip to the class. When I came out of the class there was a fairly large puddle of under my bike. It was oil and it was dripping out of the exhaust. I also noticed that the connection between the #3 header and the engine was pretty loose (don't know if this has anything to do with anything). I had to ride it home and it sputtered and stuttered all the way home. I pulled it into the back yard and that's where it will sit until I can get some help. Also, there seems to be a rather loud tick that I think is coming out of the #4 cylinder.

I took the exhaust off just a few minutes ago and and below is what came rolling out of exhaust pipe 3...





I called it quits for the night and came back the next evening and started tearing into things. I present photos for your viewing pleasure...

Hmmm, I wonder what could be wrong with these spark plugs...


Tomorrow I'm going to try to get the heads off, I'd have done it today but ran out of daylight. I've got it pretty much torn down, only a little bit left to go.

Ok, well here's my new report... I'm screwed.

pistons 3&4


pistons 1&2


the head. care to guess which one was on top of piston 3?


had to take a step back and look. This is the furthest I've ever been into an engine and even though about trying to revive it...


all the heads


had to include this one for the humor factor. the manual said to use suction to remove the pieces. this was the only thing with suction that I could find...



so... where to from here? cheaper to replace the engine or rebuild? the jugs seem to be in pretty good condition, even the #3. I'm just worried about all the crap that's in the oil right now just waiting to score up the walls and everything. What do you all advise. Please keep in mind that I'm no mechanic by any means. I don't even know how to rebuild my carbs, but I can read the Clymer's manual which is how I've gotten this far.

[bikerphil]

All you'd need probably is a piston, jugs, and a head. I'd tear it down all the way and inspect everything else before going this route. Couple motors on eBay right now (easy route), but nothing close to you.

[trbig]

So.. Did it eat the exhaust valve on #3?? Scratching my head trying to figure out how.

BUT......

Doesn't that say something for these motors? I spun a crank bearing.. ruined the motor and crank.. but it got me home. Look at his.. and it still got him home. Geniusloerts... Well.. he did a better job. lol.

Tod

[79XS11F]

I would say the cam chain tensioner let go which was the first rattle you heard followed by a cam timing change and the valve slammed into the piston which broke the valve head right off. WOW I have never seen a valve head come out the exhaust pipe before. That's a first. Crap, I don't even know how you made it home?? Anyway I would start looking for a different engine and salvage what you can from that one as spare parts.
Rob

[TopCatGr58]

Wow Varnae,

Not what we mean by punching it out! Yeah, Tod, looks like just an exhaust valve failure, the others are not bent, so don't think it was a cam chain jump tooth scenario, just a valvel failure!

Those pieces drop down into the sump pan, then most of the large pieces are caught by the oil pump screen, the smaller pieces/particles might get thru the pump, but are then caught by the oil filter, so I don't think you would necessarily need to worry too much about the particles. Then again, the finer particles might have gotten caught up in the oil, and flung by the crank blades, or the HyVo chain and might have gotten onto the gears??

The cheaper route will probably to find a spare engine. Getting used jugs/pistons you don't know what you're getting. Doing the big bore would get you new pistons, could use the jugs and bore them, so just would need a replacement head, and do a valve job, you'll have spare cams, lifters and 7 valves! You'll get the power boost of the big bore, but probably much more $$. Good Luck!
T.C.

[DGXSER]

Rob,

We were discussing this in the SWOXS group, if that was from the timing chain jumping, would if not have at least bent all of the valves? Would it still run for that long with the timing off a tooth? I guess I always thought if the timing jumped it owuld effect all four cylinders the same (not necessaruly to the point of it eating the valve head) but at least all four being in interferance. Kind of a moot point really, as he aint gonna simply retime this one.

[DiverRay]

#1. Check with Andreas for parts! he may have a head available.
#2. try for a "big bore" kit, 1192 is cheaper than the 1176, IIRC.
#3. once the barrels are pulled, pull the ol pan and CLEAN everything out with about 2 gallons of kerosine or diesel fuel. It will flush out any little bits, and keep an oil film on the steel parts.
#4. re-assemble and then HOLD ON!

[The Lorax]

I believe you're right Don, in an interference engine, what bends the valves in one cylinder, will likely bend them in all the cylinders. I suspect the valve stem just fractured, don't know why, could have been previously stressed, I would have a hard time believing that someone could have bent it and straightened it successfully, although I am ALMOSTcheap enough to try, but thoughts of something like this situation would keep me on the straight and narrow as far as that is concerned. I suppose it could have just been a defective valve. anyone ever heard of this outside of the Desmodronic valve system that Ducati uses in some of their higher end bikes? I'm still undecided on what Carl's best course of action is, whatever he decides to do, I suppose I'll be elbows deep in it right beside him....along with a few others I think. have a nice day and ride safe

[John]

I would be very leery of reusing the crank, as the #3 rod has probably beat the bejesus outta the crank journal. I would say total replacement of the engine woud be the best way to go. The money spent on rebuilding this one could be used to buy another engine and go through it.

[DGXSER]

Yeah, TC was kind enough to post in another thread for me the amount removed in the bore kits. When I look at that first picture on the cylinder wall on the lower side of the pic, that looks like some REALLY deep cuts that I wonder about being able to clean up with even the 1196 kit. JMHO, and from no where near clear pics. I certainly will be happy to lend whatever hand I can.

[79XS11F]

Rob,

We were discussing this in the SWOXS group, if that was from the timing chain jumping, would if not have at least bent all of the valves? Would it still run for that long with the timing off a tooth? I guess I always thought if the timing jumped it owuld effect all four cylinders the same (not necessaruly to the point of it eating the valve head) but at least all four being in interferance. Kind of a moot point really, as he aint gonna simply retime this one.

What the heck is SWOXS?
I have never heard of a valve head just coming off the stem so I am guessing it was given a lot of help like from a piston hitting it. For the piston to hit the valve The timing would have to have gone off UNLESS the valve keepers failed and the valve was dropping into the cylinder when it was hit with the piston.
In any case it's UGLY but rather amazing that the bike made it home.
Rob

[The Lorax]

SWOXS is a user created social group within the forum. go to the quick links tab, click and find "social groups" we talk alot. have a nice day and ride safe

[John]

South West Ohio XS group. SWOXS

[DGXSER]

Rob,

Sorry...SWOXS = South West Ohio XS group. One of our local XSives created an XS11.com Social Group area for the local "chapter" so to speak. Varnae is a member and so the post you see here is a sumation of the last few days of this developing there.

[Guy_b_g]

Looks like what happens when a valve spring breaks..or a keeper letting go as Rob said.