Another Electrical thread... w/pics

[joebus]

So for those who have seen my airpods thread you know i ran into an electrical issue. During the attempt to start my bike, my headlight, starter, and turns go out. So i jump into the fuse area and this is what I see...


SO i change the fuses even though the all look good and and i take the plate off as suggested and all i can see if freaking black electrical tape....



then i find this connection randomly unplugged?



Then i find this connection looking crapped out


I would LOVE to have the bike fired up for monday so any pointer would be great

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Joe,

Do you have a volt/ohmeter?? If not, get one from RS or HF, usually less than $10.00. Then use it to check both sides of the fuse holders for POWER and then for continuity to ground.

If you don't find any power for the ones that are for the turns and headlight, then you will probably need to look at the main ignition switch at the handlebar! It can be removed, disassembled, and many times corrosion will be found....imagine that , as well as loose or unsoldered wires!?

That first unplugged connector is NOT OEM, it's a trailer style plug, depending on where/what it's connected to would determine what it was used for, possibly for a quick connect of a charger??

The second connector does need some attention!
It's too late to order and wait for the replacement style connector from MikesXS, but you should be able to acquire an automotive style connector to replace it with?

How did the 3 white plugs that run from the ALT look, you should be able to trace the wires from the ALT if you need to figure out which ones you should look at!
T.C.

[oldyam80sg]

If you had some time a board member Geezer sells connectors and maybe can get you what you are looking for if you want to stay with the old style connector.That connector definitely looks like it has melted.

[joebus]

Honestly, I have time. I have not been on it in 5 months so I am just starting to go a little crazy...
Electrical work is something that i have ZERO knowledge about. I have one of those cheap meters but I have NO idea what all of those symbols stand for or what i would even be looking for.
Just super bummed becuase right before it fried the motor sounded like it had just maybe one more turn over before it would be running

[oldyam80sg]

If you give me your address i have a spare harness that i can take the connectors off and all you would have to do is put the pins back into the matching holes.You can get the pin tool at Radio Shack.If that wont do i can cut the wires to give you a chance to either solder them together or use butt connectors-lot less hassle.

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Joe,

Don't feel so bad. I guess we need to have one of our Electrical Gurus write up a simple HOW TO USE a volt/ohmeter tech tip!

Okay, the 2 main features I use are the OHM's...this symbol: Ω
It measures resistance of current flow, but can also be used to determine IF a circuit is/has continuity...the wires are all intact, or if there is a break in the circuit.

The 2 test leads on the meter are colored Red and Black for (+) and (-) respectively.

The other setting I use is VOLTs, should say VDC or such, vs. VAC, it measures how much voltage it in the circuit.

First using the OHM setting, touch the leads together, and you should see a reading of 0.000 which means that there is absolutely NO resistance in the circuit, that the circuit HAS continuity, is complete and connected. Now when you pull the wires apart, it may read NULL or Infinite or such, that just means that there is no connection/completion of the circuit. In the OHM feature, the meter sends a very small current thru the wires from the RED and reads is when it completes to back to the black. You can now play with it with pieces of wire and even take the spark plug caps off and test both ends, you should see about 5 k(thousand) ohms on the meter with the caps.

The other function is Voltmeter. You use it to see IF there is POWER coming from a particular wire. It can be a little difficult to hold the black (-) wire against a bare metal spot on the bike, vs fitting it with an alligator clip so you can clip the lead to the frame/known GROUND spot, so you can have your hands free for holding other wires and parts and the RED test lead.

First you can practice with a disposable battery, AA, C, D, whatever you have handy. Put the black lead on the (-) end, and the Red lead on the (+) end of the battery, you should see ~1.5 volts on the display.

Now for the bike, do same for testing the battery. Then clip the Black lead to the frame, negative terminal of battery, whatever frame bolt you can find. Retest by putting the RED lead on the battery (+) to make sure you still get the same reading. Now, pull the fuses out of the connectors, turn the key on, and then put the RED probe into one end of the fuse holder, see reading, then the other end. Hopefully you'll see 12 volts with one of the ends for each holder, NOTE which colored wire has the POWER reading.

Then switch the meter back to OHMs, and put the RED lead on to the OTHER fuse holder wire that did NOT give you a volt reading. You are now checking to make sure that the other side of the circuit completes to ground/frame!

Hopefully this will get you started with understanding how to use it!?
T.C.

[randy]

Nice write-up, TC. There is only one thing I would add, resist the temptation (or the pressure from the salesperson) to get a digital meter. Get a basic analog meter with a needle dial. It's easier to learn how to use and the needle will react faster than the digital. Some of them are even small enough to carry along.

[Varnae]

I'm by no means a guru of any sort but if you need help with the connectors and such, maybe between the two of us we can figure out what's going on. I'm on the east side of Indy. Let me know.

[T99Ford]

Just a side note: Do not use a analog multimeter on any computerized electrical systems, though (such as in nwere cars, bikes, or equipment). Analog meters use power from the circuits they are testing to operate them, and sometimes just the current draw to run the meter will be enough to burn up a computerized circuit. This is why they came up with digital meters, which are passive and supply their own current with a battery. These are termed high impedance.
Also, you can replace the bad connector with insulated spade terminals if you want to ride this weekend. You can get these at any auto parts store. you will have more connections, so just make sure that you record which wires have to connect to each other before you start. Then cut out the old connector and put in the new ones. Be sure to use heat shrink tubing to seal all the connections, or they will corrode.

[joebus]

I will test out the wires for the fuses when i get home. so do i have the power turned on when checking the fuse connections?

[T99Ford]

You will have to have the key "on" to test the powered accessory circuits. Thse include those for any function you would normally have to have the key on to operate. You will not have to have the key on to test resistance (ohms) or the live accessories which do not have to have the key on. Also, depending upon the meter, you may not get absolute zero on your meter when you touch the two leads together when measuring resistance. The meter may register 0.02-0.04 ohms or less. This is usually resistance in the leads. In a perfect world it would not be there, but most meters have this problem (even my $500 Fluke). New leads correct the concern, but only for awhile. Unless you are familiar with electrical testing, do not get too concerned with specific resistances yet. You will be using resistance checks to test circuit integrity. For example, if you are testing a fuse: Set your meter to ohms. Ensure that the leads are in the correct sockets to test ohms. Touch a lead to each side of the fuse (direction does not matter except in testing diodes, which you're not). If the fuse is good, you will have nearly zero resistance. if it is blown, the meter will show some variant of OL infinity, etc to show that the circuit it open completely. If you had a bad connection in the fuse (unlikely) it would show you some number in excess of 1-2 ohms, for the amount of the resistance. The same method applies to testing wires. Find both ends of any particular wire. It should test the same way as a fuse, provided that you are testing ONLY the wire, and none of the accessories connected to the wire. you are looking for as close to zero ohms resistance as possible, and no open circuits. If you have resistance at all, check to make sure you are not measuring through an accessory.
I would start by replacing the burned up connection that you pictured, either with a new connector, or with individual insulated spade terminals. The corrosion in the terminal translated into circuit resistance, creating heat. This is what melted the terminal. Chances are that some (or all) of the wires in that connector are not even connected due to the corrosion and melted plastic. The connections at the added in ATO fuse holders don't look that bad. In troubleshooting, start with the obvious first. And that melted connector is OBVIOUS! Don't re-use the pins in the connector either. They are corroded, and are also corroded between the pin and the wire they are spliced to. You may even find corrosion up the wire inside the insulation. The best course is to mark which wires are connected where on either side of the connector. Then cut the connector (both halves, with wires and pins installed) out of the loom. Then either replace the connector, or connect the wires individually with single connectors (insulated spades, bullets, etc.) The plastic connector and replacement pins will be more difficult to source than individual connectors. You will not sacrifice repair quality by using individual connectors if you install them properly. Just strip back about 1/ in of insulation from the end of the wire. Install the appropriate size heat shrink tubing (about 1" long) installed the connector and crimp it on with wire crimpers. Then slide the heat shrink tubing up onto the connector and shrink it with a blow dryer or other heat source. Any local auto parts house will have connectors and heat shrink tubing. you will want to use blue connectors for 16-18 ga. wire.
Sorry this is so long, but in order to be proficient at this, there is alot more where this came from!

[T99Ford]

Not necessarily true

Not trying to cause conflict, but the entire automotive and industrial world has gone to using digital multimeters for the following reasons: Analog meters are not high impedance. Analog meters rely on circuit power to provide readings, smoking any microprocessor in their path. Any quality DMM (Digital Multi Meter) is close to true RMS and will react with a positive number as fast (or faster) as any analog meter. And many (and the best) DMM's are auto ranging, meaning that they will pick the range of voltage, frequency, resistance, or current in which you are working. DMM's read in thousandsths of a volt, in production form, so hence as a rule are generally more accurate. Technology has mandated that these become an industry standard, and has force the analog meters out of daily use (in current production). I understand that many people are more comfortable reading a gauge, and that is ok, so long as they do not try to test anything with a computer on board (=smoke)
But, when buying a meter, as in all things in life, you get what you pay for.
Again, not trying to stir the pot, decry anyone, or anything. When these bikes were new, analog was in. But these bikes are not new, and analog is out...

[randy]

But these bikes are not new

That's exactly why an analog meter is the best instrument for troubleshooting these bikes, they are for the most part all electromechanical in design.

[tw1980]

Hey Randy if have an older semi expensive analog meter it probably has an input impedance of about 40 kohms per volt.If it's a RCA voltohmest model either solid state or vacuum tube it will be around 100kohms per volt.Neither one will significantly load anything on these older bikes,either on voltage or ohms settings even inside the tci.Go ahead and use it if you are used to it.But use caution on the new stuff. Terry

PS I tried to look at your page on repairing tci's and it said was unavailable.Do you replace the electrolytic caps when you rebuild the tci's?

[randy]

Hey Terry, when I do that kind of work I use a digital. Or if I'm feeling nostalgic I fire up my old VTVM! That puppy has an impedance of 100,00 ohms per volt. I always suggest to the guys especially the ones that have no experience in electrical work, to use an analog. Or even a good old test light with the needle probe you can pierce right through insulation. Great for tracing harnesses without tearing them apart. Ever try to do a TCI cranking test with a DVM? The display can't catch up to the signal! BTDT.

BTW, i just checked my site, it's fine. maybe the link in my profile is bad, I'll check that. Here it is anyway - http://home.ptd.net/~theragos/index.htm

I only re-cap a TCI if absolutely necessary, never a total re-cap. I know, I know, 30-yr old caps are always suspect, but these boards are dipped in some tough rubber goo that makes component changes a real bitch. 99% of the time the problem I've found with the TCI's is blown output transistors. Any high power diode protected NPN Darlington in the 80+ watt range will work. The early TCI's use TO-3 packages which are getting hard to find. Around 1980 (best guess) Hitachi changed the design to use a TO-220 package. You can see the pics on my site.

That's 99%. Then there's the one TCI I got in the mail last year with a note that read "I ran it over, can you fix it?" The board was in four pieces!

BTW, nice write-up on using meters and testing, but I think it went way over the heads of a lot of the guys here.