Bleeding brakes!

[fredintoon]

Ever since I bought my XS11 I have thought about replacing the 29 year old fabric brake lines with stainless braided ones. I went so far as to attempt robbing the stainless lines off my XS650 but they came up 4" too short. That left me with two front brake bleeding jobs and no further forward. Also the logistics of purchasing stainless lines from a US source put me off. I have recently found a Canadian source for stainless lines and they arrived in the mail yesterday.
Any other Canadian XS11 (or any other bike, come to that) owner who wants to avoid US$ exchange rates, Canada Customs delays etc etc but wants stainless lines, e-mail this guy
phillip@classic-cycle.ca
in Nova Scotia.
Who'd have thought that the easy part of changing an XS11 rear brake line would be removing the sidecar? You can't get at the master cylinder banjo bolt without first removing the battery box (or, I suppose, both parts of the rear fender). But I finally got the rear line on and bled and it's really solid.
The two front lines are also installed but the front brake system is valiantly refusing to give up all of it's air. I will try bleeding the bastards again tomorrow.

[b.walker5]

Speed bleeders apparently work really well, never tried them myself but plenty of blokes here at Ch11 speak highly of them.

[andysutt]

I had problems with my fronts after replacing calipers and hoses.

Do yourself a favor, buy a canister w/ the aquarium tubing. I thought I had all my air out, brakes sucked. Used this and i could still see tiny bubbles coming out. It takes a bit to bleed, but they feel really nice now and I know for sure there is no more air


What did the stainless lines run you?

[redbone]

vacuum brake bleeders work well also. can be had for about 20-25 dollars

[randy]

Fred,

When I first intalled SS lines I had rebuilt the whole system and started from dry. Had a very hard time bleeding. Finally removed both calipers from the forks and suspended them above the master. Chocked the pads with wood, the setup looked like something right out of the Spanish Inquisition, but bleeding was a breeze. Since then, I've got a mightyvac and it will bleed better and faster than any other method I've used. I've even used the mightyvac to pull down A/C systems in both cars, killer hand exercise, but it worked!

[dbeardslee]

Mity Vac works great for calibrating synch gauges too. I paid about $36 for mine, and it's a great tool. When I tried to power bleed a dry system with the speed bleeders in, it gave me all kinds of trouble. At tupperj's suggestion, I put regular bleeders back in and power bled them. Then I reinstalled the speed bleeders and did the final bleed with the speed bleeders and the brake lever.

[CatatonicBug]

Who'd have thought that the easy part of changing an XS11 rear brake line would be removing the sidecar? You can't get at the master cylinder banjo bolt without first removing the battery box (or, I suppose, both parts of the rear fender). But I finally got the rear line on and bled and it's really solid.
The two front lines are also installed but the front brake system is valiantly refusing to give up all of it's air. I will try bleeding the bastards again tomorrow.

Not sure where you're going with the battery box idea... If you loosen the plastic mud-guard from the frame that sits just in front of the rear tire (no bolts, just little tabs on the frame), a ratchet wrench can be slid in in front of the plastic, and the rear banjo bolt loosened. After it's cracked loose, you can take it off with your fingers from the same direction.

I do see how the sidecar might need to be removed first though. I take it you can't squeeze in between the sidecar and the right side of the bike real well?

[fredintoon]

Bleeding woes.

Not sure where you're going with the battery box idea... If you loosen the plastic mud-guard from the frame that sits just in front of the rear tire (no bolts, just little tabs on the frame), a ratchet wrench can be slid in in front of the plastic, and the rear banjo bolt loosened. After it's cracked loose, you can take it off with your fingers from the same direction.
I do see how the sidecar might need to be removed first though. I take it you can't squeeze in between the sidecar and the right side of the bike real well?

Hi 'Bug,
it just pops out? Silly me, to assume it was the same as my XS650 where you first remove the rear wheel so you can unbolt the chrome fender which lets you remove the plastic fender after you have unbolted it. My rig uses a remote-mounted car battery so the bike's battery box is empty. Remove two M6 bolts to tilt it and the attached electrics plate back out of the way. Yes, I could have swapped the brake hose with the s/c in place but I also took the opportunity to swap in the replacement footpegs and re-do a muffler patch job that the s/c would have been in the way of.
I finally got the fronts bled by hooking up long bleed lines in a reverse siphon to raise the fluid level in the bleed lines above the m/c so that it reverse-flowed to let all manner of froth and bubbles emerge in the m/c reservoir.
Took me 3 effin' days to work that out. After I'd done mine, my son Eric swapped in the second hose set into his XS750 Special. He chose to first connect one front line with a single banjo bolt and bleed it then connect #2 and bleed that. Took him all of 30 minutes. Dunno whether to hate that lad or brag about him. Hey, I'm his dad, I can do both.

[fredintoon]

Line costs

- - - What did the stainless lines run you?

Hi Andy,
I got a special deal on two identical sets through his dad, you make your own deal, eh?
E-mail the guy, phillip@classic-cycle.ca ,tell him what you want and see what he says.
They are excellent DOT approved lines and his prices are very reasonable.
Be aware that Phillip ships from Nova Scotia so that all the delays, hassles and border rip-offs that we Canadians get when buying stuff Stateside will happen to a US purchaser when buying Canadian.

[John]

The best way I have found to bleed the brakes, is to let the fluid flow under gravity until the reservior is almost empty. The highest point in the front brake system is the hex end of the banjo bolt, and air can stay trapped in there. It doesn't matter how many times you attempt to bleed them.You need to get that little bubble out. I have used a Mity vac, and I have a reverse bleeder that attaches to the bleeder screw, and forces fluid back up the line to the reservior. Still that bubble remained.
Now replace the cover on the reservior, remove the M/C from the bars, and tip it so the lever is pointing straight up. Having an assistant helps with the next part...Using a C clamp, compress a caliper, and that will force the fluid back up into the reservior, and that bubble will be forced into the reservior with the fluid. That procedure has worked for me everytime I have tried it.

[toecutter]

brake bleeding headacheds

finally got my old xs project off the shelf, finally had a friend get the #1 carb running after my novice carb cleanup project, and now the other details, like the brakes. front calipers started leaking, then started siezing. i wrapped baling wire around the slot in the pistons and then wired them together to make a loop, then used a bar to pry the little buggers out of there. cleaned the old goop out of the caliper bodies, cleaned up the rubber rings and reassembled. pistons popped right back in, luckily the pistons weren't rusted or pitted. now bleeding the system is giving me fits! i could do a car in 30 minutes, spent hours the other day trying on my xs. finally read a thread about bleeding the m/c first, then the lines. i'll try that...hope this helps anybody else trying to do this.

[CatatonicBug]

Toe - A compressor nozzle pressed into the inlet on the caliper helps push the piston out too. That, in combination with a big pair of channel locks or a vise to push the piston back into the caliper (to rock it back and forth). You just have to be careful that it doesn't shoot out at you or anything brakable.

Definitely need to bench bleed the master cylinder before assembly. Otherwise, it won't create the pressure needed to push the air out. Might try a power bleeder too. Lots of folks have praised them here.