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  • Carb Tuning lessons learned.

    I spent quite a bit of time in the last several days trying to conquer my low end hesitation. This occurred with the pod filter mod, and I have been wracking my brain since then, trying to get a good smooth running engine.

    I was under the assumption that the airbox created a slicht vacuum condition, which would have aided in drawing fuel from the bowl at low rpm. I had figured with no airbox I would need to richen the low end to get a good run. Boy was I wrong.

    I started by raising the needles a bit with a small washer. This made the problem MUCH worse. It would darn near die when I opened the throttle under load. woah. too rich, way too rich.

    So I set the needles back to stock. This is an 81, so they really only have one position. Then I looked into other causes for a rich low end.

    My tuning guide said the next step is float levels. Mine were already set at stock measurement and I had previously lowered them a millimeter and also raised them a milimeter. Since the needles told me I was WAY rich, I decided to lower the float level by three milimeters. WOW! there's the problem. the dead spot has nearly disappeared, and after a few more tweaks, it is smooth.

    After getting that sorted, I found it to be running lean in the upper ranges, so I put bigger main jets in. From 110 or 112.5 to 117.5. I think I still need a bump up in size. I will pick up some 120s tonight.

    My next problem is idle. I cant get it to go rich enough on the pilot screws to make it stumble, so I am guessing my pilot jets need a size bigger. I was always taught to run carb idle on the rich side, just lean of stumbling. That was on cars though, I'll see how well it works on the XS.

    So far, I am guessing I have dropped the float levels close to 4mm. I would have never thought to move them that much. When I get them all sorted, I will post my final jet sizes and float measurements. Hopefully it will help someone some day. I know there is a tech tip recommending generic sizing for different combos, but so far mine has not followed suit.
    Ich habe dich nicht gefragt.

  • #2
    Ivan - Those pods definitely make a difference in the mixture. I had my airbox drilled with a free flow filter installed, and a 4/1. Put the pods on and had to go one jet size larger on the mains and the pilots. For me that was 4 jet sizes up from stock on the mains, and 2 jet sizes up on the pilots. She's back to being a stump-puller again after the rejet. I've got total faith in your ability with carburetors - anyone who can conquer quadrajets can certainly handle these .
    I think I have a loose screw behind the handlebars.

    '79 XS11 Standard, Jardine 4/1, Dyna DC1-1 Coils, 145 mains, 45 pilots, plastic floats - 25.7mm, XV920 fuel valves, inline fuel filters, speed bleeders, Mikes XS pods, spade-type fuse block, fork brace, progressive fork springs/shocks, manual petcocks, 750 FD, Venture cam chain tensioner, SS brake lines

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    • #3
      QuadraJets were a cake walk compared to these. I can do those in my sleep.

      Maybe... hmmmmm.....


      Anyone have a spread bore manifold for an XS11?
      Ich habe dich nicht gefragt.

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      • #4
        Anyone have a spread bore manifold for an XS11?
        That sounds like a good machinist's challenge! I'd be very, very interested to see that.
        I know this, because Tyler knows this.

        1980 SG
        3J6 003509
        Kerker 4-1 (sans baffles)
        Fuse Block Upgrade
        Mike's XS Green Coils
        Pods w/Homemade Velocity Stacks

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        • #5
          I'm not sure it would do any good with four singles, but then...can you mount a quadrajet sideways?

          I remember the first quadrajet my dad tried to do. He pulled it apart and springs and parts flew everywhere. Three or four days (and many handfulls of hair) later, he took it to a carb guy. He sat there and watched him do the job, and after seeing where everything went (and getting a manual) he wound up being a pretty good quad guy. I always remembered that first one though .
          Last edited by dbeardslee; 04-27-2009, 01:37 PM.
          I think I have a loose screw behind the handlebars.

          '79 XS11 Standard, Jardine 4/1, Dyna DC1-1 Coils, 145 mains, 45 pilots, plastic floats - 25.7mm, XV920 fuel valves, inline fuel filters, speed bleeders, Mikes XS pods, spade-type fuse block, fork brace, progressive fork springs/shocks, manual petcocks, 750 FD, Venture cam chain tensioner, SS brake lines

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          • #6
            QuadraJets are down draft only, so the manifold would have to be designed in that manner. Depending on the model of Quadrajet used, it would be anywhere from twice as much to 5 times as much carb as the bike could ever use. I said it as a joke. If one were to build a custom manifold, a Weber side draft carb would be a much better choice. Parts are readily available and they come in small enough sizes that one could possibly be matched with the HP an XS11 has.

            FWIW the carb boots have an aluminum piece in them, which would be a good start to weld tubes to and connect to the proper plate for a automotive style carb.

            But I digress. This thread is about getting stock carbs to run right with pod filters.
            Ich habe dich nicht gefragt.

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            • #7
              Ivan - do you have a colortune? I've found mine very useful in determining jetting. If you can't adjust it through the entire range (yellow - bunson blue - white blue) with the mixture screw, chances are the jets are off. Of course that assumes they're clean, and the floats are adjusted properly (mine are set as per stock - 25 mm). At any rate, they let you see what's going on in the combustion chamber. JAT
              I think I have a loose screw behind the handlebars.

              '79 XS11 Standard, Jardine 4/1, Dyna DC1-1 Coils, 145 mains, 45 pilots, plastic floats - 25.7mm, XV920 fuel valves, inline fuel filters, speed bleeders, Mikes XS pods, spade-type fuse block, fork brace, progressive fork springs/shocks, manual petcocks, 750 FD, Venture cam chain tensioner, SS brake lines

              Comment


              • #8
                Nope don't have one.

                A calibrated ear and a steady hand seem to suit me well. On automotive carbs, I adjusted the idle to peak rpm then backed it out until it just started to drop. On my scoot, I can take it out 4-5 turns and it still lopes along. I can adjust it past the peak on the lean side, then richen until smooth, but as one would expect, it makes a slight hesitation when the throttle is cracked open. Especially if snapped open quickly. No acclellerator pump on these carbs, so I'd bet the idle needs to be a tad rich anyway.
                Ich habe dich nicht gefragt.

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                • #9
                  Well, I got a bit of riding today. Even with pulling and draining the carbs all those times, I got about 12 more miles out of the tank before I hit reserves, so the mileage has gone up.

                  Still waiting on the larger pilot jets and some larger mains.
                  Ich habe dich nicht gefragt.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A calibrated ear...
                    ... and one deaf one.


                    Tod
                    Try your hardest to be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.

                    You can live to be 100, as long as you give up everything that would make you want to live to be 100!

                    Current bikes:
                    '06 Suzuki DR650
                    *'82 XJ1100 with the 1179 kit. "Mad Maxim"
                    '82 XJ1100 Completely stock fixer-upper
                    '82 XJ1100 Bagger fixer-upper
                    '82 XJ1100 Motor/frame and lots of boxes of parts
                    '82 XJ1100 Parts bike
                    '81 XS1100 Special
                    '81 YZ250
                    '80 XS850 Special
                    '80 XR100
                    *Crashed/Totalled, still own

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by trbig View Post
                      ... and one deaf one.


                      Tod
                      Sorry, can you speak into my GOOD ear??
                      Ich habe dich nicht gefragt.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Tonight I put a final tweak on the floats. I got the low end smoothed out nicely, but the floats were so low that they only traveled about 1/8 inch, which I don't think will open up enough to flow the proper amount of fuel at full throttle.

                        I think I need to lower the needles, but I don't wan tot change something I can't change back. I have a set of 78-79 carbs with adjustable needles, and was considering putting the needles in from them for the adjustability. Crazcanuk had mentioned somethign about canadian spec needles from Mikes XS, as well.

                        I also had a thought that maybe the needle and seat combo (on the floats not the slides) might be the wrong height or I missed a washer when I was rebuilding them. Has anyone ever experienced that with the cheap rebuild kits? If the needle was the wrong length then the float level would create a different fuel level, or that is what I was thinking....
                        Ich habe dich nicht gefragt.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey Ivan,
                          I think the needles Craz was refering to were for the later model carbs, im not sure if there interchangeable.
                          When i leaned the floats out on mine it cured the off idle stumble but acceleration was flat through out.
                          Have you tried stretching the slide springs a little, this
                          fixed my problem, you could then try the stoc setting for the floats. JAT
                          pete


                          new owner of
                          08 gen2 hayabusa


                          former owner
                          1981 xs1100 RH (aus) (5N5)
                          zrx carbs
                          18mm float height
                          145 main jets
                          38 pilots
                          slide needle shimmed .5mm washer
                          fitted with v/stax and uni pod filters

                          [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pA8dwxmAVA&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/url]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ivan View Post
                            .. If one were to build a custom manifold, a Weber side draft carb would be a much better choice. Parts are readily available and they come in small enough sizes that one could possibly be matched with the HP an XS11 has...
                            Now that has started a spark of imagination, I have 2 twin throat 32mm Dellorto side draughts out in the shed that once were fitted to an english Austin Mini Cooper in the 70's. Hmmmm... that would be different.
                            1980 SG. (Sold - waiting on replacement)
                            2000 XJR1300. The Real modern XS11. Others are just pretenders.

                            Woman (well, my wife anyway) are always on Transmit and never Receive.

                            "A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be" Albert Einstien.

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                            • #15
                              This worked for me!!

                              I had the same low end missing and hesitation and got rid of this way:

                              http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22129

                              It still has the original 112.5 mains in it, which surprised me because it has a 4X1 RC exhaust. I'm running the floats at 21mm!! I'm not that worried about mpgs as long as it's smooth and strong.

                              Just my $.02 worth. Hope it helps.
                              1980G Standard, Restored
                              Kerker 4 - 1
                              850 Rear End Mod
                              2-21 Flashing LED Arrays on either side of license plate for Brake Light Assist, 1100 Lumen Cree Aux Lights,
                              Progressive springs, Showa rear shocks
                              Automatic CCT
                              1980GH Special, Restored
                              Stock Exhaust, New Handlebars, 1" Spacer in Fork Springs, Automatic CCT, Showa Rear Shocks
                              '82 XJ1100 (Sold)
                              Automatic CCT, RC Engineering 4 X 1 Exhaust, K&N Pods, #50 Pilot Jets, YICS Eliminator. Sorely missed.

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