front tire on back??

[lostsoul74]

welp, short of swapping this 17 down to the 16, how bad is it really to throw a front on a back. I ask for this reason, on craigslist theres a new dunlop 404 whitewall, 140-80-17 whitewall, front. I want a whitewall in the back, but cant catch a deal on these 17's, normally i dont pay more then 40-50 bucks for a tire but cant catch a deal on this one, but the dunlop is only 25 bucks ya know, dont really care if it only last 2 seasons ya know, mines bald so it's better then nothing. just wanted to make sure the thread pattern isnt gona pull me the wrong way or anything ya know....
I've seen others say the difference is merely tread thickness so it will wear out quicker, and to reverse the tire. ? I dont understand the reversing part, wouldnt that make water travel to the center of my tire instead of away if it was wet out? just curious on your opinions, but not looking for any textbook safety lessons either ya know, just weather it is extremely unsafe or not.

thanks

[dbeardslee]

If you put a 140 with raised white letters on the back chances are it's going to rub on the driveshaft housing. I've heard good things about the bridgestone s11's. You can get them brand new for around $60 ea. (more for RWL) Motorcycle Superstore has the best price I've seen, and they advertise free shipping on orders of $75 or more. Here's a link.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com....aspx?P=0&F=71

[trbig]

I don't know about the tread reversal, but I'm sure the load rating is substantially less on a front tire.

I don't know how many miles you ride, but I can't get even one season out of a 404. Being a front, you'd probably get even less, but I got somewhere around 4-5k miles.

Maybe someone will chime in here that actually knows.


Tod

[lostsoul74]

thanks so far gents, tried that sites, not real impresssed, i've seen those bridgestones on ebay often for under 50 (either 45 or 49.99 buy it now, cant remember, seen em on their lots of times). I'd prefer a nice looking sport tire with wide whitewall, i ride pretty hard, but at this point, what ever is white and cheap.... lol, almost thinking of painting my whitewalls like I did another chop for a buddy of mine (just a little xs400 i got for 100 bucks so a roomate back then could ride with me, but it was too gay looking as it was so i chopped it up for him, sanded the tire down (centerstand in gear and just layed sandpaper against it), and used rubber whitewall tire paint, kind of like they did back in the 40's. held up pretty good actually and was alot easier to keep clean, but i'd prefer a nice thick factory coating ya know.

send me any links if you guys know where to get a good cheap whitewall for a rear 17.

oh yea... heres the whitewall tire paint i used back then, didnt turn out too bad for a hundred dollar bike with maybe 80 bucks in mods on it and a few hours. not even, chopped springs, 25 dollar solo seat, 7 dollar interesting suicide shifter, spray paint buffed out, 14 dollar dogbone risers....oh yea, and 7 dollar whitewall tire paint. (which actually, i think a nice oil base Kills would work just fine and last longer anyways) lol.

[79XS11F]

My front tires say right on the side wall "front use only". I would not put a tire intended for the front wheel on the back. The front tire is not subjected to nearly as much work as the rear tire.
Rob

[dbeardslee]

You can get the dunlop d404's in a rear variety - $86.85 at Chaparral for a 130/90-17 - but not in a whitewall. Might be time to get the sandpaper and white paint back out. Cool lookin' bobber BTW. Kind of looks like a love child from a Harley/XS union.

[prometheus578]

"Sounds fishy to me."

...just weather it is extremely unsafe or not.

Well, I don't know...
But... Uhm... it seems that the guys that designed the tires seem to think that it's unsafe.
Front tires are designed differently than rear tires: different compounds, different sidewalls and profiles, etc.
This is why some are marked "For Front Use Only" or For Rear Use Only".
Reversing tires...?
Uhm... most tires have that little arrow showing the direction that the tire is supposed to travel. I would think that the tire designer had a reason for doing that.
Let's ask him and find out what it is, shall we?

"Herr Tire Designer... vhat's da deal mit der little arrows?"
(we're asking the German guy that works for Metzler)

"Well... tires are interesting things... As you know, tires are made of plys... patches of rubber layers. Tires need to hold their shape and such when they're flexing, so we tend to over-lap these plies to a degree. Think of these plies as scales on a fish. If you run your hand over the scales in one direction everything is smooth. If you run your hand over the scales in the other direction... not so smooth... the scales tend to lift and bite into your hand.(Chunks of scales may also tend to break off)
To further demonstrate... we wil now strap some dead fish to the tires on your bike... rear tire first.
Ok... fish are strapped to the tire... and when the tire spins, the fish hits the pavement head first. Let's do a burnout. See how the scales all lay flat as the tire whizzes around. This is as it should be.
Now, let strap fish to the front tire... in the same direction as the ones on the rear.
Hmmm.. all seems well as we're rolling forward... but that's not when the tire plies are stressed. They're stressed when the front tire is braking.
Rolling forward is fine, but during braking, the tire wants to rotate slower that the pavement that it's in contact with, yes? Let's take this to the extreme and lock up the front tire.
Now, the tire isn't turning... the fish scales aren't laying flat. What's happening is that the poor fish on the bottom, his scales are digging into the pavement, lifting and separating from each other... and some are breaking off.
So... the plies on a rear tire are over-lapped in one direction(for acceleration), and the plies on a front tire must be over-lapped in the other direction (for braking)

So... front and rear tires are designed for different purposes and have little directional arrows to show which way they need to rotate. To mount them otherwise risks having the plies separate inside the carcass of the tire... which could lead to disasterous results.

"Thank you, Herr Tire Meister. You are truly a wise man."
"Yes, I know"

So there... fronts go on front, rears go on rear, and we don't try to do stupid things like reversing them, nor do we "Armour-All" the sidewalls and such.

The front tire is not subjected to nearly as much work as the rear tire.

I would disagree. The rear tire just sort of spins and follows the bike. The front tire takes most of the stress of braking and puts up with more flexing as the tire bites into the pavement when cornering... note that front tires are more rounded and have more tread at the sidewall than rear tires, etc.

[79XS11F]

HMMM come on .... unless your bike is a front wheel drive machine the rear tire is not just following the front tire?? The rear tire is the propelling tire that also gets stressed during braking and is subjected to Hugh torque input while accelerating and even more stress when accelerating out of corners while the bike is leaned over.
Rob

[BigDick]

HMMM come on .... unless your bike is a front wheel drive machine the rear tire is not just following the front tire??

I had a front wheel drive motorcycle once. . . . .

[lostsoul74]

lol, I like the dead fish assimilation

yea, i was up late last night reading what alot of other guys said about it on google, aparently alot do it, just cause like me, they found better deals or freebies on something, it just wears out more quickly. And yep, they said the same thing, you reverse the thread because the fronts are designed directional for breaking, and the backs for accelerating, so thats why they reverse the direction when putting a front on back or back on front. No one anywhere on google said anything about a tire ever falling apart or disintergrating on them. And to expect only 3-5k on them, wears faster because tread grooves arent as deep, but perfectly safe as far those that have done it are concerned. I guess for 25 bucks, thats fine if it lasts me only a couple seasons. (it's a hardtail basically, so i dont do any cross country riding with it, and it's only my around town scoot anyways as i've usually got a few bikes laying around).

Thanks for all the help gents!!! much appreciation.

[Crazcnuk]

If you put a front on the rear, or vice versa, and it's a directional tire (ie the arrow on the side) you just install it backwards.

I have never heard that front and rear tires are constructed differently, but many tires are directional meaning they want the drive forces in a certain direction.

If you think about it the rear is driven in the forward direction so all the forces are against the tire pushing forward at the contact patch.

Front tires are driven by the road so the forces are front to rear at the contact patch.

Many tires used to come with 2 arrows on them, one saying if on front install this way, and if on rear install the other way.

Personally, I like to put a softer tire on the front. Better turning and braking, and wears out rather than cups.

[Barnfresh]

Tread backwards? I heard if you hook the battery up backwards the horn sucks, the carburetors blow and the radio listens...

[Crazcnuk]

It's a possibility, but just llok at the tread and see if it would care. If it has a really v shaped tread ddesigned to get water out from underneath, maybe, but most bike tires I have seen have fairly straight forward unidirctional patterns.

It's mostly about how the plies are in the tire.

[wa407mpp]

It's amazing how some people will go out of their way to think up ways to kill themselves.

[lostsoul74]

I'd be happy to read ANYWHERE where you can show me that someone did and ended in a negative result other then just quick wear. Some things just take a common sense approach without all the far reached statistical nonesense, just because something may not be the best choice performance wise, doesnt mean it's dangerous in any way. Hell, just ask the chopper guys riding on car tires. I ride on chopped springs, for various reasons, and i'm sure theres plenty that would say its unsafe.... lol, but for every statistical far reached reason they can come up with, I can show you thousands that have been riding them for many years. It's a to each it's own world, you can go to a dealership and pay top dollar for what they recommend, or you can go with what works by tried and trued know how. just my 2 cents, but thats probably why i'm a biker, cause i do things my way.....

thanks again guys, my answers were researched and discovered last night, and already bought a couple hours ago. I'm not gona bother flipping it, cause it dont look right laying next to it with the v's going the other way. It will be just fine for the season or so. just need something that will pass inspection and look good for a while.