#3 #4 Plugs completely black after 1 mile

[DiverRay]

If you are putting the air to the vent tube, and NOT looking from the other side, you just crush the junk in harder! The vents MUST be clear for the carbs to work properly!!
With the bowls off the carbs, look up into the top of the body and you will see the hole drilled for the vent "T". blow the air into there, using a rag or something to help seal it. Do both 3&4 carbs, and then try it with the spray carb cleaner. You should be able to run a pipe cleaner from one carb, through the "T", to the other carb. If that works, remove carb #4, remove the vent "T", and clean it out. Replace the vent tube/hose, and VERIFY the vent into the airbox is clear. That should solve the problems with 3&4 running rich.

[Ken Talbot]

What shape were all four of the pilot screws in when you pulled them out? Did they all still have their long sharp points? Or did any of them look like the top one in this photo?

[CA]

Okay...

No I got all brand new mixture screws from my rebuild kit so they were all pointy.

Ok so I will double clean all the air passages...then put them back in...my only thinking is maybe I should switch out the floats from 1&2 and 3&4 to see if it makes a diff, Yet I am trying to figure out if a somewhat deflated float wil make it run richer or leaner...because the floats seem to be more deflated in 3 &4....

[DGXSER]

I think what Ken may have been thinking is, have you looked at the holes where the mixture screw comes out? Sometimes people will torque down on these screws and snap the tip off and it can be stuck in the hole.

The float issue, I do not know the answer. Depending on how your funds are, I would either buy new floats, or go to a junk yard and deal on some replacements. To me, I'd rather spend the money now and cross that off the list of possible issues than have to wonder if that is one of the causes. Yeah, you have to get those vent holes cleaned out.

[Ken Talbot]

Any chance of posting a photo or two of your floats?

Floats could collapse if air pressure has been applied to any passage that vents into the float bowl to try to blow things clean while the floats are still installed. A collapsed float would not rise as quickly or as far, which would cause a higher fuel level in the float bowls, which could cause rich running codition.

[boyat68]

Ken did not say, but he has posted a series of pictures that show a bench device that you can construct to show the fuel level in each of your bowls. I would say that this device is important enough to show the action of your floats as well as the cutoff of the fuel valve, and determines if your carbs leak before you put them back on the bike.

[CA]

Air flow!!

Ok I know my floats are now not in the best condition (half deflated)..but before they were fully inflated...yet I think I may be able to still use them...as I put them all in water and note the difference in float hieght and will adjust accordingly, like I said I may just have to buy new ones but Ill give it a shot....

Now, what I believe to to be the main problem is air flow, if I put compressed air up to the air jet(brass screw in the air bell) (yes with the floats out now) then on the "good carbs" 1, 2 no air comes out of the big, highest brass jet (main jet??) yet on 3, 4 air comes out of the main jet thing. So I took out my pilot jet screw topper and noticed perhaps it is actually air coming through the pilot jet on 3,4...where it is not on 1,2. So there is obvious air distribution difference in the two sets of carbs and since 1,2 were running great then that is what I am aiming for, I am just not sure exactly how...I am going back in to try and figure it out...anyone of ideas of what is causing this??

Forgive my laymen terminology!!

[DGXSER]

Ok I know my floats are now not in the best condition (half deflated)..but before they were fully inflated...yet I think I may be able to still use them...as I put them all in water and note the difference in float hieght and will adjust accordingly, like I said I may just have to buy new ones but Ill give it a shot....

Realize that even if you were floating them in fuel, they will probably react differrently installed in the bowls. Also, if they got "deflated" then air got out of the floats, that means there is now a hole somewhere for fuel to get into and change the float height and fuel level in the carb.

Now, what I believe to to be the main problem is air flow,

Did you get the vents to 3 and 4 opened up?

if I put compressed air up to the air jet(brass screw in the air bell) then on the "good carbs" 1, 2 no air comes out of the big, highest brass jet (main jet??) yet on 3, 4 air comes out of the main jet thing. So I took out my pilot jet screw topper and noticed perhaps it is actually air coming through the pilot jet on 3,4...where it is not on 1,2. So there is obvious air distribution difference in the two sets of carbs and since 1,2 were running great then that is what I am aiming for, I am just not sure exactly how...I am going back in to try and figure it out...anyone of ideas of what is causing this??

I think I followed this, not picking on your terms, just trying to figure it out myself. One thing to keep in mind, on these older style of carbs, the ones with the cap screw over the pilot jets, there is a passage between the main jet/emulsion tube area to the pilot jet. This is why the cap is on there, pilot jet draws fuel from the main jet area, also why the mains on these are so much larger than on the newer carbs. So, it sounds like you have gunk/plugage of that path in 3 & 4. My best guess from what you have stated anyway.

[rpgoerlich]

I too am chasing a similar problem on #2 & #3. Same bike, same setup: 4-1 w/stock airbox. I've replace 1 failed float that was on #1 with a used one. Still no go after 3 R&R's of the carbs and re-verifying float levels and everything is clean. All Electrical ignition components check out. New Plugs & plug caps, Pickup coils wires repaired.

I've come to conclusion that I need some continuity with the floats as well. So I've ordered 4 new plastic ones from MikesXS, and full carb rebuild kits with jets, needles, seats & gaskets from Georgefix last week(should be waiting for me when I return to work). Going to break the rack and verify everything is clean one last time, including vent lines, again... I figure it's a small investment considering what I paid for the bike. It will definetely rule out the carbs once I get them setup corectly.
I really want this bike ready to get back on the road once I get the Title!

Will let you know.

[CA]

And the winner is DGXSER!

So my thought was going right along with you DGSXER when I went back into the shop, so i decided to take out the pilot jet to check if there was gunk in it. I realized that in 1 &2 no air flowed through the pilot jet hole yet 3 and 4 did; at first it didn't make sense but I just put #3 pilot jet in and made sure it was TIGHT and walla!! No air!! So I went to #4 and simply felt how tight the pilot jet was and it wasn't tight at all, i actually had to screw it down!!!

So the pilot jets in 3 &4 were not sealed and were letting air through; so i am not sure exactly what was occuring scientifically but it was not getting a right miture of air thus making it reallly rich.

This has to be it....right?

Thats the fabulous news...the expected not so good news is that I put it all together and turned on the fuel, and fuel began pouring out the airbox; so to everyones surprise it looks like I need 4 new floats....but I'm trying to look on the bright side and realize that then m carberautors should be running perfectly!!

Hopefully mystery solved, but we will officially see when the floats come in....man I am so impatient.

Oh and yes this mistake was absolutely dumb and and was an oversight by me, in fixing this bike I have made many of these errors from ignorance (floats) and made things twice as difficult on myself; but I must say it has all been worth it; I have learned so much, not only about mechanics/bikes, but ust how to work smart....and the girls think its hott!

[CA]

float height

So I was just doing some reading and realized the flooding may have been my fault has I felt like I needed to adjust the "hanging tang" to make two of them drop farther to compensate for the deflation....so maybe I don't need new floats?

Although I did see a few pin holes in the sides of the floats...even though they still floated...I am just trying to figure out a way to save $50!

[DGXSER]

Glad we found the problem, and yes those jets being loose will let the bike run VERY rich. Not the first time we have read of someone opening the carbs to find that issue.

You definitely want the floats set to the right heights!! Also, make sure there is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING in the needle valve and seat area. It takes very very little to keep that valve from shutting the fuel off.

The only reason folks here knew to tell you NOT to do the air with the float bowls on, is because one of them probably did it themselves, or read about someone who had. We all make bonehead moves getting in a rush and pay the cost.

If it were me, I'd get the new floats for the ones that are crushed or have holes. Otherwise you will be guessing if that is the problem the entire time your trying to tune these carbs in. Oh yeah....once you get them in and wokring and the bike running, then you have to tune them. The fun never ends!!

[TopCatGr58]

Hey DGxser,

The floats with the crushed sides that are still intact/airtight have NOT lost air, but have just compressed it a bit, but the main thing is the floats loss surface area/fluid displacement, and that's why they sink a bit farther down into the fuel vs. the non-deflated ones.

Folks have done some soldering to seal the pinholes, but you have to be careful otherwise too much heat can melt the other solder joints of the floats.

Next, taking the crushed ones and once verified that they have no holes....no bubbles seen after submerging in almost boiling water is to put them into that same almost boiling water and use a strainer or such to HOLD them down under the water to allow the heat of the water to heat up the air inside to help expand them back out.

Then, using the tube to the float bowl technique you should be able to adjust the floats to maintain the same fuel levels with different floats that float at slightly different levels.

Glad you found the loose pilot jets, but as has been said, you need to be sure that the VENTS are open and not restricted. Folks have found gunk built up inside the "T" fittings themselves, not so much the actual carb bodies. Those holes in the body are quite large and difficult to clog, but the "T" fittings are smaller inner diameters, with angles, and stuff clogs them more easily. Also, I posted a diagram(I didnt' make it) of the fuel/air flow thru our carbs, I'll find it and repost it here so you can better follow the paths from the air jets thru the carbs so you can better tell where you should be able to get and feel air blowing thru, as well as possibly the need to use a fine wire to probe the carb to break thru crud with carb cleaner to get the air flowing thru properly!
T.C.

[CA]

Floats

Okay I may take out the carbs and try to salvage these floats before I buy new ones....

I will do the boiling water thing...concerning the holes will they bubble continuously or will there simply be a bubble sitting in the hole...

all of them still float but I can see little pin holes in a few yet they do not really bubble, there maybe one bubble just sitting in the hole...maybe just from the water...my guess was that there is an inside layer that was not punctured?

even if the floats are at different heights, should they all drop down about the same height when held rightside up?

And will I need to change my oil if gas came out my air box, i turned the petcocks off right when I noticed and did not run it...

[TopCatGr58]

You may not necessarily see bubbles flowing from the holes, but as long as you've rubbed away the surface so that you're sure it's not just a bubble stuck to the outside, then you've confirmed a hole. You'll want to put them in the oven at modest low temps for a while to properly dry them out before trying to solder them. Also cool them down before soldering, trying to have the air as dense inside them as possible when you seal them. Above are a couple of photos showing the tang on the side of the floats that are set to prevent them from dropping down too far and allowing the float valve to get tilted and caught/hung up preventing the float from being able to move and push the valve back in when the fuel flows in. The valve doesn't have to move very much to allow PLENTY of fuel to flow in, the important thing is having the float able to cut off the fuel when the fuel gets to the proper height/level in the bowl, that's where the clear line connected to the float bowl technique comes in handy vs. just using the standard height settings, since the floats are NOT the same shape as OEM after the sealing and repair/reinflation.

The other diagram is the one I spoke about showing the air and fuel flow thru the carb.
T.C.

PS, you'll just have to check your oil to see if it smells like gas got into it, but if it was just a short time, and the gas flowed out the back of the carb, bike sitting where the carbs were at an angle DOWN from the intake boots, then doubtful you got gas in the cylinder, oil. Technique for checking oil, take piece of stick/something, stick down in the oil thru the filler cap, pull out, step away from the bike, and then try to light oil with lighter. If lights, got gas, if it doesn't light, got only oil!