2nd Gear/ All gears

[yuddy]

Can anyone tell me if there are any other tell tale signs of the infamous 2nd gear problem other than it slipping out of gear?

My box is quite "cluncky" and some times it feels like it is clicking twice before it goes into gear, but it happends on every gear except 5th gear.
My bike only has 21,000mi on it, 10,000 of which I put on it last summer.
Any Thoughts??

Ed.

[Jerry]

A few other symptoms.

Transmission is hard to shift into 1st gear, or won't stay in first gear. Not just the clunk when shifting in, which is typical.

2nd gear does not slip out of gear, but skips as the dogs on the 5th gear wheel slip out of the slots on the 2nd gear wheel, then back into another set of slots.

Lots of false neutrals between 3-4 and 4-5 shifts.

The transmission is clunky at best, not nearly as smooth as other Japanese bikes. Other than the minimal engagement in the 5th - 2nd gear combo, it is pretty strong. Moving the washer to the other side of the 2nd gear wheel increases engagement by about .040, the thickness of the washer. This seems to be enough to fix the 2nd gear skip problem.

The first gear problem is generally a worn fork issue, although there is a set of meshing gears similar to the 5th - 2nd gear wheel combo, and a few people have reported wear on these gears. Fix is new gears; I have not heard of a modification that will help eliminate problems here.

Again, not all XS and XJ bikes have transmission problems...it was once estimated at 15 percent or so, and then mostly in Specials and XJs.

Make sure the clutch activator arm is adjusted properly. This is the arm under a cover that is moved by the clutch cable. Adjustment is fairly close, and if not correct can lead to poor shifting as the clutch is not operating properly. There was a thread in the last couple days on this topic, so check the recent posts in the XS/XJ Discussion forum for the adjustment procedure. Clutch cable, particularly if very well used, old, or sat for a long time may have a lot of internal friction and may need to be replaced.

I would check the cable and adjustment before assuming the transmission is bad. You might also want to take out the clutch friction and drive plates, clean everything up, and see if that helps. Again, some Tech Tips go through the procedure.

Check everything else before going into the transmission.

[Pat Kelly]

I was just Emailing back and forth with someone on the XS triples list about 2nd gear issue.
I was wondering if anyone's polled the XSives that have/had the 2nd gear problem to see a trend on which bikes this occurs on. Maybe track the serial numbers and or production dates and see if there's any 'clumps' of bikes that have the trend. Maybe we can trace it to a particular person on the production line and make him fix them .
Has anyone that has NOT had the 2nd gear syndrome looked at their tranny to see if the washer is on the other side?

[beechfront]

well i took my tranny all apart assuming to see some wear, but didn't. washer was on the 'wrong' side and I did move it, but the gears didn't seem to be worn excessively. perhaps the previous owner(s) never got on the gas much?

[TopCatGr58]

The Real Gear Failure Culprit

Hey Pat,

Well, I don't consider myself an excessively aggressive rider. I would occassionally get on the throttle for those fun moments at highway on ramps and the occassional red light race, but mostly just drove it relatively normal, not grandpa style, but not slamming it to 8.5 k in every gear all the time either. I got my bike new/used (15miles on it) drove it for over 9 years before the gears started acting up, and it was 1st gear that behaved badly 1st. So.....I then gingerly would start out in 1st and then quickly shift to 2nd and then apply the throttle as usual. It wasn't a few months later that 2nd started to fail. That's when I parked it, regrettably for over 9 years since I didn't know how to fix it and wasn't aware of the web site then, I don't think it even existed until a few years before I decided to work on it!?!?

Mine is an 81 SH, I performed the dremmel fix on both sets of 2nd/5th and 1st, primary, 4th. Kept the washer on the "wrong" side. IT's held up quit well these past 2 years. I think a survey would be a good idea to find out at least "IF" there is any kind of trend, like Specials more than Standards, or any particular year of model, but looking at mine being one of the later ones, and I helped a friend with his 82 XJ with same 1st gear problem, fixed the 2nd gear prophylacticly, it doesn't look particularly like the age (being older) may have any thing to do with it, vs. the actual # of miles on the tranny.

Also, it has been suggested that the shifting into 1st from sitting still adds more wear, so folks that use theirs more for city riding vs. highway could possibly see more wear due to more stop and go traffic....I now leave it in 1st when stopped at lights and hold the clutch! So....good luck in constructing the survey to try to cover these differentiating possible causes!!!!!

T.C.

[Pat Kelly]

FWIW my bike has a manufacture date of Sept 77 (one of the first ones?) and I don't baby the bike but not a squid either. I currently do NOT have the 2nd gear problem.
Wife has the 79 XS750F and is not having problems either.
I asked at Big Is Deuce if anyone thought moving the washer beforehand would prevent the problem and the consus was that no one had 'fixed' it that didn't have the problem to begin with.
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it".
If for some reason I do any major engine work (big bore kit ), I may look into the tranny. I know the big bore kit can be installed with the engine in the bike but at that time I'd probably go for a total restoration/detail of the bike.

[beechfront]

What to do?

So far I have found 4 different methods people have regarding the 2nd gear fix. I'm listing these methods followed by their reasons for doing it that way.

A: simply moving the washer to the other side will allow the gears to engage fully - the circlip is not a worry as there is no sideward pressure on it.

B. Moving the spacer as well as grinding the gears - in addition to moving the spacer, grinding the gears will help them stay engaged (especially if they are worn)


C: Grinding the gears and not moving the spacer - the spacer needs to be there to keep 2nd from rubbing against the circlip.


D: Leave spacer where it is and install a new (additional) spacer on the other side. 2nd gear needs machining to allow room for the extra spacer.



From my limited knowledge, I think C and D are the best options. I think the spacer is where it is for a reason, but I also think something needs to be done to better allow the gears to fully engage and stay engaged


I'm going to try to find an extra spacer. I feel that D would be the best way to go. I'll pay the $30 to have 2nd gear ground out. If I can't find a spacer I'll probalby go with option C.