Wiesco Price increase

[Paintman]

Hey Guys did you see the pistons went up almost 200$ a set i just snagged a set at old price of 469$ from Dynoman ive been doign some checking and seems like evryone just raised thier prices even for stock that was on a shelf.
just a heads up LOl time to recycle more cans.
John

[daveyg]

Oh Damn, that is gay. Nobody has any money and so everyone raises prices? And I just got a xs11 and was hoping to get a set of those big bore pistons, but am a little afraid of the near $700 tag... What the hell? Now i"m pissed! If they were only $469 I could totally justify it, but... Oh... I'm at a loss for words. I'm gonna call them just to bitch about this. Worst case scenario they'll just tell me to piss off, best case scenario, they'll give me the old price. But seriously, I'm livid. So much for the thought that in a ****ty economy things are less expensive... F*** politics and f*** this economy... And f*** wiseco, I'm a machinist, I'll just make my own damn pistons... Billet is stronger than forged anyway. Those bastards.

[latexeses]

Quit beatin' around the bush...Tell us what you really think.

[daveyg]

Sorry, it's been a rough day... Got stuck in a freakin monsoon on the xj650, 20 miles from home... And this just fueled my anger. Like grain alcohol to a match... Grrr...

[81xsproject]

You start maching pistons at a more reasonable price, you let us know

[oseaghdha]

..................

..................other stuff.............

Billet is stronger than forged anyway..............

Um, no.

It's not even close.

[daveyg]

Um, no.

It's not even close.

Really depends on which alloy used. 1050-H14 has a tensile strength of 16000 psi, whereas 6061-T6, one of the strongest and most well known alloys has a ts of 42.0 ksi, almost triple, not even taking into consideration the difference in compression strength, which follows similar suit. I would probably use a 3000 series alloy, for cost effectiveness and weight savings, you don't want 3 pound pistons, because then you wouldn't be able to rev for sh!t and you'd be stuck side by side with some guy on a harley with your throttle pinned. In any case, I would be sure to test the validity and safety of the pistons I would possibly, hypothetically make, by running them in my own bike for at least 1,000 miles. On another note, 2000 Kawasaki Ninja ZX9R bores are 75.0 mm, the Wiseco 1196cc kit is a 74.5mm bore, 75.0mm bore (just for ease of finding piston rings in that size) would produce a total of approximately 1220cc the most difficult part would be calculating the compression ratio, but would be easy enough after checking the liquid cc of the combustion chamber at tdc. Wow, this turned into one hell of a novel...

[oseaghdha]

Without getting into boring detail, the material spec was not relevant to the statement. It's the process of forging that makes the difference. Obviously, the actual chemistry and post heat treat will have a huge impact.

Mashing an almost molten slug into a form causes the grain structure of the metal to be aligned in specific ways determined by the forging die. Proper die design will cause the material to flow in specific directions at specific points.

This property increases strength in the desired areas, such as the wrist pin boss, or ring lands.

I'm not saying hogout pistons won't work, just that forged will always be stronger.

[Paintman]

Pistons

Hmm also there has been alot of research with using new types of polymers for piston use. with the new technologies developing as fast as they are who knows what we may have to choose from next. and yes there are several bikes with similar bore as the 1196 would take up to main thing is the wrist pin location which would decide the rod orientation. im sure we can figure it out . and all this started because of price lol.
John

[daveyg]

Most of the greatest innovations in history evolved out of a price dispute... Also in economics, the companies that thrive in an economic depression are the ones that can produce a similar result for lower price, or a better result from equal price. And on the billet/forged debate... Hell, I'll just make some forging dies while i'm at it! Or not, back to the cost effective thing... if machined billet will hold up sufficiently... why fix something that ain't broken. Again, I remind, I will gladly be the r&d test mule...

[Ivan]

You can bet you sweet (insert vile body part here) that pistons would be hogout if they were more cost (pronounced profit) effective than forged.

It takes a fraction of a second to forge something and machining the high points is much cheaper than hogging out with carbide tooling that costs as much as the set you're going to sell.

the stronger part is just a side benefit. If it were more expensive to manufacture forgings, we'd only see them in race applications and such like that. Same reason all engines don't have forged titanium rods.

On the Ninja pistons, are the wrist pin diameters close enough that something could be worked out and is the crown to pin distance comparable?

[Dan Hodges]

Pistons

I hate to give away my secret's but you guys are breaking my heart. Ross Pistons will custom make you a set of pistons for your XS for about $425 for a set of 4 and you can buy the rings from them or whoever. You will need to send them a stock piston and tell them what ring package and bore size you want or they can replicate a ring package with the stock width. They will duplicate the dome of the stock piston or you can send them a mold of the combustion chamber and they will profile the dome from that. Ross makes their pistons from 2618 T-61 aluminum which is the industry standard and as I said, the ring package is optional unlike the deal at Wiseco where they only make one. Their telephone number is 310.536.0100 and they are much more user/customer friendly than Wiseco. They are also on the WEB. Mention is made that you can buy a 78mm piston for the same price as the stock size and all you have to do is send that spare block to Advanced Sleeves or Ross for some trick sleeves, boring and honing and you are good to go. You can get the head gasket from Cometic and make your own base gasket and oh yes, if you go with larger sleeves to accomodate the big pistons you will need to clearence the crankcase for the larger sleeves. Some times you have to shop around and I have did the work for you. Good luck.

[daveyg]

Wow, Dan thanks for the tip... I lika dat idea...

On the Ninja pistons, are the wrist pin diameters close enough that something could be worked out and is the crown to pin distance comparable?

I only posted up the Ninja bore for the easy availability of rings in that bore (as if you could walk into any Kawi dealer and ask for them by name...) I have no idea if the pistons themselves would fit in any way. (one possible problem would be 4 valve reliefs per piston, rather than 2) But with the info Dan threw out there for us, sounds like Ross is the way to go... What better way to drown Wiseco than by giving money and business to one of their competitors?

[trbig]

Great Dan.. NOW you tell me. Although I gave less than that for my Wiseco kit was less than that WITH the rings, it would have been nice to try out this other place. I would have liked to get a piston that is as high domed as the later model pistons. The Wiseco pistons are somewhere in between the 78-79 pistons and the higher domed 80-82 pistons. BUT.. even at that price, arent the rings somewhere around $40 a set? That would put this set from Ross in the same balllpark as Wiseco.

What I will say for Wiseco is that the two piston kits I have seen were machined EXACTLY the same. I took the pistons to my machinist so he could fit the bore to each piston, and all of them have been the exact same diameter.

It would have been nice to get a bump up in compression though for approximately the same price if they would have matched the late model dome profile.


Tod

[oseaghdha]

Dan,
Have you done anything with longer rods?
With custom pistons you can change the wrist pin to crown dx to accommodate a longer rod.
Get some more torque!

I have not looked at the existing geometry.

Other Dan