Just bought first bike and need some help

[CA]

Hello to all. I just purchased a 79 xs1100 SF for $350 last week, and it is my first bike as I am in college. It is an pretty good condition it needs tires and the guy I bought it from said the "floats seemed to be sticking open" aka carb work. It had been sitting in his barn for the past year.

I do not know much about bikes at all, I have spent hours searching the forums and yet still have a question, so forgive me if this is a repetive question.

I ran seafoam through the gas, the bike starts up fine and will idle on half choke. It can hesitate on half choke, so it won't run perfectly, but it will run fine nonetheless; yet when I close the choke, it dies. I have to give it throttle for it to survive on a closed choke.

I do not have the experience to work on the carbs myself, and honestly don't understand much of what is said about the carbs on the forum. My question is, am I looking at a total rebuild, or just a cleaning? I am not sure if I have the finances for a total rebuild (college student remember) so the cheapest options are the best. Any direction? Anything I could do? The yamaha place said a cleaning of the carbs would be about $250 which was a guestimate of 3 hours of labor. 2 hours if I took them out myself...Again sorry for my inexperience, it is my first one! Thanks.

[CatatonicBug]

Welcome to the forum!! Congrats on the great find. You lucked out that the bike still runs after sitting for a year. Looks to me like you just need to do a thorough cleaning. The path that the fuel takes to get into the cylinders goes through a set of holes, and when the choke (aka enricher) is pulled all the way out, fuel flows through all 3 holes. When it's pushed in one notch, one of the holes closes, and when it's fully pushed in, only one hole is open. Sounds like the holes are just gummed up a bit. Take the carb bank out clean all the tiny holes, all throughout the whole carb. Take all the jets out (one carb at a time) and spray carb cleaner through every port, and use compressed air to push the gunk out. Once you think it's all clean, clean it one more time, and put it back together. Be sure to synch the carbs as well. Plenty of threads on here that will outline that process. Lots of knowledge here in this forum, so don't be afraid to ask any question that you can come up with. Someone will have an answer for you.

[CatatonicBug]

Be sure to download a manual (or get a paper one if you prefer). Pictures and step-by-step instructions always help. The hardest part about these carbs is figuring out how to get them out the first time. Do it 3 or 4 times, and you'll be a pro at it Use the tech tips section of this site to walk you through the details too. Start with a couple cans of carb cleaner spray, a phillips screwdriver, a thin-blade flat screwdriver, and a small pair of pliers, just in case. Be gentle, but firm, as the carbs can be delicate, but things can also stick really hard after sitting in old fuel for a while. Be sure to take EVERY little screw out, and clean the hole and the screw before you put them back in. Good luck!

[marshall]

Hey man, congratulations on getting your first bike, and 350 is most likely a steal for what you got. I'm a 21 year old college student, and I bought my first bike about 2 years ago while I was living in CA. My '80 XS11, which I'm currently spending a lot of time fixing, is my third bike. Buying and riding my first bike ('84 KZ650) was one of the most exhilarating and exciting periods of my life, and if you're like me you'll wish you never sold your first bike.

I can relate to your financial situation, and I'm always trying to do things as cheap as possible. When I got my first bike, I had the advantage of having already poured quite a bit of money into my automotive "habits" over the years, so I had a good mechanic's tool set and a few specialty tools. If you don't have good tools, steal them from your dad or your friends. I mean, borrow.

Taking apart your carbs and "refreshing" them would be well worth your time. Do it yourself and save that money for the many parts, tools, lubricants, solvents, etc. that you're probably going to have to get for the bike. With the carbs, constantly keep these two points in mind:

1)BE GENTLE. I'm always amazed at the fact that somebody on the internet is still selling new parts for all these old bikes, including most carb parts (i.e. partsnmore). So you'll find that you can buy almost any part that you break. Problem is, there are a LOT of tiny and extremely delicate parts in these carbs, it is incredibly easy to f&*^ them up, and while they are often available, they are NOT CHEAP. For example, take the time to find a wooden dowel to gently tap out stuck nozzles with lots of solvent, rather than using the end of a screwdriver because it'll save 5 minutes. Take every opportunity to use your head and plan things out - you'll save tons of time, money and frustration at having to wait for your expensive little parts to arrive in the mail.

2)Clean every tiny part and passage in the carbs until you're completely sure everything is free and clear of obstacles - then do it over again. I have taken the carbs off my bikes to clean them out 4 times for 2 bikes, and it should have only been 2 times for 2 bikes. This is meticulous, time-consuming work, and you DON'T want to have to do it again, or sacrifice the health of your bike because you don't have time to redo it. These carbs were designed with holes that are practically the width of a human hair, so don't rush into putting the carbs back on the bike unless you're confident the gas will have no tiny rust or dirt particles in it.

Anyways, good luck and ask lots of questions.

Marshall

[trbig]

Not stated here, but don't soak the carb bodies in cleaner. There's O-rings in the butterfly shafts that it will ruin.

As for the carbs, nothing about them is "Magic" like the electrical stuff is to me. Four screws to take off the float bowls, a pilot jet, a main jet, and float. Be careful removing the float pin as the two cast aluminum parts that the pin is through are fragile. By removing this pin, the float can be removed along with a metal tab that the float pin is attached to. This will let you check float pin and seats. If there is a circular groove around your float pin where it seals on the seat, you're better off replacing them. Partsnmore.com has the needle and seat set for $10 each x 4 carbs.

Also, in the actual float bowl that you removed, there is a small jet on the edge of it that the long brass emulsion tube on the carb goes down into. It may be hard to see.. but it's down there. Clean clean clean on this. If it's good and clean, a nice shot of carb cleaner shot through the plastic straw they give you with it will squirt you right in the eye if done correctly..

Seriously.. these carbs are super simple. The main things to be careful of are the float posts that I already told you about, as well as the mixture screws. You must LIGHTLY.. I can't stress that enough... screw the idle mixture screws in until they LIGHTLY seat, and you have to count and keep track of the turns, then remove them for cleaning. When re-installing... you must again lightly seat the needles then screw back out the same turns to get them where they were before. Anything over a very light seating on this mixture screw results in the tip breaking off, sticking in the hole and blocking things up. Lots of problems to remove this... so just be careful.



Tod

PS... We've heard time and time again how people took their stuff to other "Qualified" mechanics to get worked on, got charged a chunk of money only to get messed up results. In the end they ended up just having to do it themselves. So save yourself some cash and get your hands dirty. Nothing compares to the feeling you get doing it yourself anyway.

[thewiz]

Are you in California?

If so, there are some scattered from North to South .....

[fredintoon]

Let's be careful out there.

Hi CA & welcome.
Once you get the bike running well on all four it will be good for well over 100mph.
Alas that it runs out of brakes and steering at ~85mph.
You say this is your very first bike?
You can either ride it very carefully or end up as a smear of forensic evidence.

[CA]

you guys are awesome

Wow, thanks so much for the help. Thanks to your guys advice I decided to take the plunge and ripped into her tonight. almost got the carbs out, and would of if one of the airbox screws wasn't horribly placed and refusing to come out entirely...Tomorrow i shall begin exploring the wide world of Carbs. And begin cleaning them and recleaning....VERY CAREFULLY . I will be ordering those parts off of partsnmore.com, thanks trbig. (My air filter looked like someone had pooped in a wire frame)

I wish I lived in California, alas I live in TN. My handle refers to my name.

And yes I am very respectful of motorcycles, and their danger; hence I am not your average college student who wanted to get a crotch rocket to try and look like a bada$$. I learned on an early 80's Honda 500, got me into older bikes...thanks for the warning.

If there are anymore bewares please feel free to let me know, and if I come across some questions which I will, I'll make sure to post them. Again thanks for the help.

[CA]

oh..

Did I mention how dang good it feels to work on your own bike...

[trbig]

Those airbox screws don't have to be removed.. just loosened to give the box some wiggle room backwards. You're still going to have to do a little prying/pushing to get the carbs out of the boots.

Also, since you probably don't have any idea of what the petcock screens look like inside your tank, make sure to pick up a couple cheap inline fuel filters to help keep any rust bits and such taking up residence in your float pin seats and such again.


Tod

[CatatonicBug]

Did I mention how dang good it feels to work on your own bike...

No kidding! The best part is when you get it all back together and it actually WORKS! The immense satisfaction is the best part of working on these things, and the help and guidance available in places like this site really makes that all possible.

[trbig]

The immense satisfaction is the best part of working on these things, and the help and guidance available in places like this site really makes that all possible.

In all seriousness... you could take a picture of nearly any nut/bolt/screw/part and someone on here will more than likely be able to tell you where it belongs AND the torque of it!

SO.. don't be scared to work on these yourself. You can always get help here if needed. A good manual will get you through just about everything.. but this site is great insurance if you get stuck.



Tod

[TopCatGr58]

Local Xsives

He CA,

You're in luck, there's an XSIVE right there In Nashville, called NashvilleBill. I can't speak of his availability of time, but he's a nice guy, has attended several rallies that we have down in Northern Ga and thereabouts!! You can look him up in the Member's Lounge, see the STICKY thread, and then search. You may also find a few others in the TN area? Drop him a PM if you feel the need for some handson help, like when you get around to trying to vacuum synch those carbs!!
T.C.

[CA]

You guys were right...

Well you were right about the Carbs not being rocket science, even though I don't even know how it all works I took one apart and put it back together today just to familiarize myself with them before my carb kits came in so i would be ready to roll.

well as the mixture screws. You must LIGHTLY.. I can't stress that enough... screw the idle mixture screws in until they LIGHTLY seat, and you have to count and keep track of the turns, then remove them for cleaning. When re-installing... you must again lightly seat the needles then screw back out the same turns to get them where they were before. Anything over a very light seating on this mixture screw results in the tip breaking off, sticking in the hole and blocking things up. Lots of problems to remove this... so just be careful.

Is this necessary for the cleaning? My Clymer manual told me not to mess with them....I am kind of scared to...or is this what happens during syncing?

Also if i don't soak the carb bodies because of those o-rings...then is it ok just to spray everything with carb cleaner after the diaphram thing is out?

And where can you get the old fashion dip basket barb cleaner set up?? I couldn't find it...

I am finding it is very difficult to work with older metal that is gunked up. Someone worked on these carbs before and half way stripped the exterior screws so not there are about 4 screws that i cant get out of the exterior brackets holding on the tops and the two screws holding the chromy choke handle thing that simply won't budge and I may have to drill out....is it ok just to simply replace these?? it is really frustrating...i almost couldn't get one of the tiny screw things holding the choke rod in place, it stripped like it was butter so I had to reshape it...and it came out purely by grace...

i have never heard of penetrating oil but from reading the forums its sounds like I need to look for some.

The only thing i didn't do was take out the pilot jet because it scares me to death, and i didn't have a flathead for it...not looking forward to 4 of those...

The good news is now I understand what i am reading on the forums and faqs on some level now that I have disassembled and reassembled a carb, before it was latin. Now I actually enjoy reading all of the faqs!

Thanks for the heads-up TopCat! Considering i only vaguely know what you are referring to...I may need to enlist his help!

Thats all I can think of now
Thanks guys,

[petejw]

Hi CA,
Those early model mixture screws scare me to. :-)
Take them out, youll need to do this for a proper cleaning.
When there out take the spring off one and screw it back in and get a feel for the 'light seating position'.
Also while there out have a look at the tips and check that there not broken or worn.
Depending on how dirty the carbs are, a good carb cleaner spray and compressed air would suffice.
The old fashioned carb dip baskets i see occassionally on ebay.
All the screws are replaceable and can be picked up from any auto store.
With the pilot jets, its very important to find a screw driver that fits perfectly into the head, if they're stuck i give em a whack with a hammer. Place the screwdriver on the pilot jet, whilst twisting anti clockwise give the top of the screwdriver a whack with the hammer, ive never had a problem removing a stuck jet this way as long as the head was in good condition.
The penetrating oil ppl refer to is something like WD40 or something similar.
Once you get to know how to pull them apart, have a read on how they work, makes diagnosing carb problems somuch easier.
Hope some of this helps.
Good luck with it.