Is this carb related?

[DGXSER]

Here is the background. Just finished rebuilding the carbs, got it runnung very well, no I have not yet synched the carbs. Took it out for a ride a few weeks ago and hit some slick road and gravel, layed it down in the grass. Headlight got pushed over and sliced a wire and cut into a few others. I spliced the wiring back together for the ones that cut the wire including soldering and electrical tape over joints. Got it back together and it sounded good, took it out for a short ride everything went fine.

Wenesday went to ride and it would not run right. Figured it must be fuel line routing got a pocket of air locked in them. Raised the tank up at the back and it seemed to straighten out. Yesterday I took it out for a ride, and ran fine to the bank about ten miles. When I got back on, it started missing, especially under power. It gets better above 5k but still there. got it home, and tried the tank raising, but it did not cure it this time.

I sprayed all four headers with water, all equally hot. looked at the brand new NGK spark plugs, bought and installed Wednesday night, so this was the inaugeral ride for them. 1 and 3 the electrode is tan. 2 and 4 it is light greyish. At idle it does not sound even. I can'timagine the synch would cause the missing. It was so bad I had to rev up to 3-4K to release the clutch in first without it dying, it would barely pull up to speed of 40 MPH.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[oldyam80sg]

Did you try the bread tie sync?I initially did that on mine and it ran like that for a week until i was able to sync them using a tool.But I didn't have problems like you had.

[renegade_xs11g]

This could go a few different ways

youv'e just rebuilt the carbs, why?
what kits did you use, brand and size of jets, would be key
Float levels, opinoins vary on just how important these are, I tend to lean toward not as important as synching,
But I used to believe that synching wasn't either

and then it could go in the direction of electrical, ya know pickup wires, coils, maybe even the black box...Can't remember what that's called for some stupid reason

but I'd look into a good synch first, that's just me

Good Luck

[tarzan]

JAT,how much gas do you have in it?If it has gas and it ran good before,maybe when you laid it down it mixed sediment up into the carb form
the bottom of the bowl.Could have some restriction from junk in there

[81xsproject]

If it WAS running good, and now for some reason it is not, I highly doubt that it is an issue of synchronization.

[The Lorax]

Check the pickup coil wires, I concur with renegade_xs11g. I had a similar situation at the start of last season, ran like crap at low RPM, thought it was carbs as I was making changes, found out otherwise. my vote is p/U coil wires, pull the timing cover and tug gently on each wire, if it stretches, you've found it. just a thought, have a nice day and ride safe

[DGXSER]

I think it may be fuel

OK, So I fired it up this morning. It fired right up with full choke and went almost straight up to about 2500 RPM, after 30 seconds set it to half choke and let it run there for about 3 minutes or so then no choke idle at about 1000. Again it ran fine, took it out and got about 1 mile and it started again.

Brought it back, this time no 2 water would run off the header. So, I checked comp. on 2, it is 140 when warmed up. Now, I start synching the carbs. I do notice little difference when I pull the vac boot off no 2, but I get a reading on the gage when I hook a line to it. The rest of the cyl effect the engine when I pull the vac boots. No 1-2 were off about 1" of vac so I tuned them to wihtin 1/2", all else was within 1/2".

Now for the interesting yet vexing discovery, it stalled out and would not restart when I pulled the vac boots off 3-4 carbs, then I looked at my newly installed fuel filters which are clear, no gas in them. So I messed with the tank and got some fuel in them. Go it to run enough to finish the synch. Now I took the tank off and drained it, fuel ran from each petcock like it was a river.

So, am I getting air lock in the filters keeping the fuel from flowing?? I swear I am ready to go back to the stupid octy.

I will still check the pickup coil wires like stated though. Could be a combination of the two.

[81xsproject]

My buddies bike has problems with airlock. Once the fuel is flowing, it is fine, but if it sits for a long time it does it again.

[boyat68]

Check the fuel tank vent or cap vent to see if sediment filled it up when you laid it down.

[TopCatGr58]

Another Alternative.

Hey DGxser,

Okay, interesting combination of cylinders! 1-3 being light tan, 2-4 being light gray. These pairs of cylinders are not linked or related in either electrical ignition...should be 1-4 or 2-3, nor with regards to fuel supply.... should be 1-2 and 3-4!

I remember a story about an Xsive with similar problems and paired cylinders. One thing about the ignition, the plug coils have a PRIMARY cylinder where the high powered spark comes OUT of the coil, and a secondary plug wire where the high power runs thru the engine and then back UP thru the plug and wire to the COIL...the paired coil wires. However, IF they are not getting strong voltage to the coil, it can have enough power to fire the primary wire, but not enough to properly fire the second plug wire, and so you can have poor performance on 2 and 4 cylinders, and it IS electrical!!

Have you checked your charging system and battery lately. It is cold up there isn't it?? IF you are not getting good voltage, the TCI won't work right, and could also cause problems for the ignition coils. Revving in neutral or without a load isn't hard on the engine, but when you try to move it, that load can cause problems getting it going when it's not hitting strongly on all 4, specially if it's really only hitting on 2!

T.C.

[Larrym]

I’m betting that when you laid the bike down that the sediment inside your fuel tees became dislodged and flowed downstream to plug up your float needle/seat screen in one or two of your carbs.

. When I was building a set of carbs to troubleshoot a problem on my special I didn’t want to “break the bank” of carbs apart but when the fuel tees leaked I had to pull the carbs apart. Inside the passage where the tees go had a fair amount of sediment that had never been removed as I was prob’ly the first to “break the bank.” More than enough to plug up the tiny screens protecting the float needle. If you didn’t pull the cabs apart from each other when you cleaned the carbs then you likely have the same crud in those tee passages.

When you had your mishap the bike ended up on it’s side. Check the carbs that are downstream of the tee outlet. Chances are that they are the most plugged but then again all the screens have prob’ly been affected.

This “blockage” from the tee passages would plug up the screens and prevent air/fuel from entering the float bowl(s). It would also prevent the fuel from entering the inline fuel filters as well. But sometimes just enough fuel may make it past the debris to fill the float bowl. (Maybe enough for a mile or two down the road before it totally plugs up again…) A partially plugged filter/screen is way more frustrating than one that is totally plugged cause the problem will be intermittent.

I’m envious that you got to ride. Too much “Black Ice” in my area .

[DGXSER]

What I know so far

Renegade - I rebuilt the carbs because the idle seemed just a bit off to me and at about 3000 rpm I had a bit of a just noticable by ear uneveness. So I tore down the carbs and used kits form Georgefix that were K&L. They are not Mikuni jets, but have the same hole patterns. I used the new mains and pilots and new seats and float valves. I also got new mixture screws and used those as well.

Pickup coil wires do not budge seem tight and fine. Tank was about 3/4 full when we took our stumble.

As to charging system, interestingly enough I have not used my tender much and it starts well and has not yet failed to crank and crank well.

Larry, I am never certain of anything until I see it, but, based upon what I saw when I opened up my carbs, (looked like brand new, almost shiney and all aluminum grey, the only place I ever saw any kind of buildup at all was under the main jets on the tower they mount in) and the amount of carb cleaner I pooled in the T's and used q-tips and compressed air in them as well I am doubtful there was anything to break free.

I did pull the tank off, so no fuel source to the carbs. Started the bike, and it was missing badly, by pulling the plug wires one at a time, I found that only 3 &4 were hitting, 1 & 2 were not.

So I pulled my petcocks to see if I had filters on them, they are in place intact and look like new. The bottom of the tank on the right side has soem sediment, but 70% of it looks clean (splattering of deposits mostly) I am left to assume the left will be similar. So, I am going to try it tomorrow without the filters.

TC - Yep it is cold, about 20's today. How could I check for the condition you described? I am not sure I followed that, but then nuts and bolts and gears are more my speed, I can unbolt anything and even put it back most times. What I think I read is that the coil may not get a strong connection and therefore only fire one of the two plugs it is supporting? The other (non-firing) plug is the "secondary".

Thanks very much for the good ideas, I'll let you know what I figure out.

[DGXSER]

OK so now I am really getting fed up. I put it all back together, mounted the tank put the fuel back in, turned on the fuel and now no 4 carb float is sticking and fuel running out the air box ect again!!!

Going ot bed and try not to make mine match Lorax's (rolled own a hil and set on fire). Starting to think I need to rethink the kits I put in. It never leaked a drop before the rebuild.

[bikerphil]

Sometimes the floats will get stuck when reinstalling the carbs and the bowls are dry. On initial prime, I always tap the bowls repeatedly with a ratchet handle to help avoid this situation. I'm sure you'll have it figured out tomorrow, just don't set the bike on fire!

[The Lorax]

I think he's more concerned about it catching on fire and then in frustration rolling it down a hill. I don't remember where I heard the term the first time, but I always liked it and it happens to fit the look of my bike; it runs good for the most part, but looks like it was set on fire and rolled down a hill. it's nothing a bit of cosmetic work wouldn't fix, I'll paint the tank again, the plastic piece on the back of the seat so that everything matches again. but it will still look like crap until I get some side covers for it, given the scarcity of them, and my unwillingness to spend the jack they go for on ebay, I will either go without or fabricate something clever in their place. Don, keep after those carbs brother, you'll get them dialed in soon enough, it's too da&^ cold to ride right now anyway, see you this afternoon eh? have a nice day and ride safe