Type 1 and Type 2 differentials

[3Phase]

I need some advice.

Guru, non-guru, one-legged giraffes, it doesn't matter. Don't be shy, even if you're a Ford mechanic!

I received a differential for the 750 conversion mod and have discovered that, for whatever reason, someone removed the pinion gear coupler and stuck it back on with an air impact gun. That would have been okay on a Type 1 differential but, unfortunately, it's a Type 2 differential and now the pinion bearing preload is tight. It's close to 5 or 10 FOOT pounds instead of 3.4 to 4.3 INCH pounds.

The Type 1 differentials use shims to set the pinion bearing preload, lash, and ring gear contact.

The Type 2 differentials use a crush washer to set the correct pinion bearing preload at the correct torque, then shims for lash and ring gear contact. All XS1100s use Type 2 differentials.

With a Type 2 differential, if you don't retorque the pinion coupler to the same torque at which the crush washer was crushed, the pinion/ring gear contact pattern, lash, pinion bearing preload, and possibly all three will be wrong and the differential will self-destruct.


At this point, I might be able to get a non-hosed differential from the supplier. It's a shame, really, as it's a very nice differential and the gears and bearings are all in excellent condition.

If that doesn't pan out I can try to find a new crush washer
Part# 1J7-46129-Y1-00 SPACER, EXPANSION (1J7-46129-YO)
and retorque, reshim, and repaint the gears but I think the crush washer has been discontinued. I'll look around some more tomorrow but it's not looking good tonight.

I may be able to find some shims or some shim stock to set up the Type 2 like a Type 1 and re-paint the gears. Unfortunately, I haven't actually seen a Type 1 differential so I don't know if shimming a Type 2 with Type 1 shims to set the pinion bearing preload is even possible.



Regards,

Scott

[DiverRay]

Scott,
I don't know if I had the type 1 or 2 on "daily ride". I know I had to loosen up the nut once I installed it, as the shaft would NOT turn. I just set it to turn easily, and then put Red Line 75W90 synthetic gear oil in it. It had about 35K on it when the transmission went, so I think it's NOT that big a deal. Just My Humble Opinion....FWIW

[3Phase]

Thanks, Ray!

I was going to try just leaving the nut a little loose and see how it went but, unfortunately, the pinion binds up when the locknut nut is just past "tight" and not even remotely close to "torqued." The nut would unscrew and fall off in a couple of miles, tops, unless I spot welded it.

As for the visible difference between Type 1 and Type 2 final drive differentials:

Type 1 final drive differentials should have one or more shims underneath the machined washer and locknut in the pinion drive coupler.

Type 2 final drive differentials have a Phillips screw in the plate next to the pinion drive coupler (and no shims underneath the machined washer and locknut in the pinion drive coupler because of the crush washer on the pinion shaft).

It looks like the Yamaha parts fiche lists two separate pinion bearing housings for Type 1 and Type 2 so my cunning plan is probably all for naught.



Just for completeness: the mid drive differential gear assembly also comes in Type 1 and Type 2 flavors. The chrome gear cover for the Type 2 has one more bolt than the Type 1 so they're easy to spot without taking anything apart!


Regards,

Scott

[randy]

Scott,

I have the final drive service manual in .pdf format, if you need it let me know, I'll e-mail it to you.

[3Phase]

There's a Manual?

A MANUAL?!

Sure! I'll take it if you have it! It has to be easier than reading 'sploded part diagrams through a web browser porthole with the magnifier; sifting the 'net for the correct lash and torque settings and the proper technique for holding three tuning forks with two hands at the proper distance from one's skull for ideal resonance at rest and at speed.


Are there any other essential (so of course they're not in the factory service manual) unpublished publications from Yamaha?

I'm pulling the pinion assembly apart to see what, exactly, is wrong with it and to see if it can be shimmed or if I'll have to channel Walt Disney to find a substitute for a two-bit, crummy crush washer.


Regards,

Scott

[3Phase]

The Reply Post Doubled

and I can't delete the duplicate.



Puzzled Regards,

Scott

[randy]

Scott,

Sent manual

[randy]

Scott,

e-mail bounced back twice:

Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

Subject: shaft drive manual
Sent: 10/17/2008 2:21 PM

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

phase3@worldnet.att.net on 10/17/2008 2:33 PM
There was a SMTP communication problem with the recipient's email server. Please contact your system administrator.
<mail.nyaes.com #5.5.0 smtp;550-72.244.214.66 blocked by ldapu=rblmx,dc=att,dc=net>

[3Phase]

Scott,

e-mail bounced back twice:

Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

Subject: shaft drive manual
Sent: 10/17/2008 2:21 PM

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

phase3@worldnet.att.net on 10/17/2008 2:33 PM
There was a SMTP communication problem with the recipient's email server. Please contact your system administrator.
<mail.nyaes.com #5.5.0 smtp;550-72.244.214.66 blocked by ldapu=rblmx,dc=att,dc=net>

That's a bummer; thank you for the offer and the attempt!

rblmx = Realtime Blackhole List Mail eXchanges.

Your mail server has been blackholed by AT&T Worldnet for spamming or some other unsavory activity.

Back when Worldnet still had its internal Help newsgroups I could have had one of the mail/news admins unblock it. Now, I have no idea how to get in touch with anyone or anything except the pre-recorded telephone menu hoop-jumping endurance contest.


Thanks again and it's back to the garage I go!



Regards,

Scott

[randy]

Here, i uploaded it to my server, you can download it from this link. Hopefully your ISP will let you! This manual is priceless, has everything you need for type 1, type 2 and middle drives.

http://home.ptd.net\~theragos\ShaftDriveManual.pdf

[DiverRay]

Randy,
I think the "link" shortened the full link. I get an error trying to go to it. I was trying to download it so I could send it off to Scott.

[randy]

that's weird, it worked when i previewed the post. I can e-mail it to you, but i doubt you'll have success sending it to scott, i already tried that. pm me your address and i'll send it to you

[randy]

OK, I posted this back in August, just found it. I verified that the link in this thread works,


http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...t=shaft+manual

[3Phase]

Got it!

You are amazing, that was exactly what I needed!

This isn't exactly my first rodeo but I've never worked on a motorcycle differential before and parts for this one aren't available. I've rebuilt gearsets ranging from large ones on heavy equipment that I could stand in (you do not 'guess' on gear sets with diameters measured in yards that move hundreds of tons with thousands of horsepower costing well into silly numbers of digits to replace and that can explode, violently, if set up incorrectly), mid-sized ones in large trucks and assorted other types all the way down to small ones in pickups, cars, and special equipment.

Meanwhile, back in the jungle: I torqued the locknut to ~70 foot pounds and the coupler will barely turn. I took the pinion set back out and checked it on the bench. It looks good, I just can't tighten the locknut. The Fine Manual says to replace the crush washer if there is too much preload. 70 to 108 pounds of torque is quite a wide range so I'll have to start at the low end and check lash and gear contact as necessary.

Meanwhile, back in the States: It's time to get ready for a church function this evening. I'll read the manual some more and pull the gears again tonight but, bottom line, I need a new crush washer.


Regards,

Scott (getting the knack of triple tuning fork alignment)

[TopCatGr58]

Hey Scott,

Checked 2 sources, both still list it and price it:

https://www.zanottimotor.com/shopping/pLookUp.php
1J7-46129-Y1-00 SPACER, EXPANSION $7.59

T.C.