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  • A penny for your thoughts?

    I am having a problem that sounds kind of like the on that Grimace is having (http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...threadid=19750), but not quite the same. I am hoping that you guys might have a thought on what the problem might be.

    First off the ride before the issue arose was out meet the guys for lunch for the "Lost in IL" rally. Rode about 2 hours to the lunch, rode back with Dan and then when for a solo ride. All told about 300 miles. I had absolutely no problems or issues during that ride. Also I started and ended the ride by filling up using the same pump at the same gas station.

    The bike sat for two weeks. I then went for a test ride after changing my fork oil. The bike started normally. After about a mile (maybe a little less) when I would come to a stop sign she would die, but was still running fine otherwise. Twice this summer (months apart) I have had this problem when she would die at stop signs. The first time I was almost out of gas, and after I filled up the problem disapeared. The next time I had plenty of fuel. Before I rode her again I added some seafoam and the problem was non existent when I started the bike (before it ever ran throgh the carbs). Back to the present; I went a couple of miles and decided to turn around because I am old and she is too heavy to push. On the way back she started running slightly rougher. The exhaust had a "gurgle" to it and she would stall as soon as I pulled in the clutch. She would crank over just fine, or start fine if I released the cluch. After I got home it had a lot of the "gurgling" at idle. I decided to take it around the block to see what I could see. She would still die if the clutch was pulled in, and if I hammered on her she would accellerate just fine except when I crossed 6K rpm and 8200 rpm. At both of these spots she would momentarily lose all power then resume pulling hard. It was just enough time to send my weight all the way forward before sending me back again. She would not stall as londg as there was a load on her. If I pulled in the clutch or shifted to neutral she would die. I returned home and pulled the plugs. All for looked black like she was running slightly rich. I put her away.

    Today I cleaned the plugs. I started her up and she was fine. I went for a test ride, and again at the same stop sign she died when I came to a stop. A few minutes later she started dying again when I pulled the clutch. The gurgle returned although not as pronounced. I tried repeatedly to make her skip a beat like last weekend and could not. I went home and had some lunch.

    After she had cooled I started her back up and she idled fine (with gurgle). I let her warm up for about a minute before she stumbled out. I tried the petcock on reserve and prime and she would still try to idle then die. I used an multimeter to start checking the electrical system guessing that it must be electrical as a carb problem would be constant(?). The battery (checked through the tender leads read 12.98V (good). With the bike running @ 2K rpm with the high beams on the battery reads 14.76V (good). Next I attempted to check the coils. I did not remove the from the bike, but disconnected the spark plug wires at the plugs and pulled the primary wires from the connectors. I could not get a reading. The numbers constantly jumped from 0 to 14 Ohms. I was testing the red/white wire and the orange and gray wires from the same coil with the multimeter set to test 20K Ohms. Is this how the test is to be performed?

    What am I doing wrong, and am I on the right path?

    I should also mention that I replaced the fuse box last August, and when she dies she still has power as I still have lights.

    Sorry about the novel, but I did not want to risk leaving anything important out.
    Dave
    1979 XS1100SF Special

  • #2
    coil wires

    I'd first try unscrewing each spark plug cap and cut about 1/4 inch of the wire off. Screw them back in and you'll know you have solid connections there. Here's some info if you think you're coils are the problem....

    http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread...=&threadid=583
    Last edited by bikerphil; 09-28-2008, 12:27 AM.
    2H7 (79) owned since '89
    3H3 owned since '06

    "If it ain't broke, modify it"

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    • #3
      Thanks Bikerphil! I will try that in the morning. I had actually printed that link earlier. Plus there is a diagram in the Clymers manual. I thought that I was testing it properly, but I could not get a steady reading. Then the Swmbo called and said her and our house guest were on their way back home so we could head out for dinner. I had a minor fuel spill and was covered in gas. That ended me working on my bike for the day (the only thing I wanted to do). I am not sure if the coils are the issue, but it seemed to pop up alot in my searches. Although I never found anyone with the exact same problem as I seem to have. The biggest difference I find is that I never lose my electric (lights/dash).
      Dave
      1979 XS1100SF Special

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      • #4
        It could also be the ballast resister. I've seen bad ones act like this.

        Geezer
        Hi my name is Tony and I'm a bikeoholic.

        The old gray biker ain't what he used to be.

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        • #5
          A few weeks ago after a comp check I forgot to plug in #3 and it would start and run but if you tried to move it would instantly stall.. seemed strange that one plug being disabled could make the whole bike run so badly. My guess was that the wire was arcing to the frame or engine so mabye it was also effecting #2. Not sure, but ya might wanna check your plug wire routing and make sure its not tick tick ticking while it runs and leaking thru the wire casing (all it takes is a microscopic hole or weak spot).. Just a guess but something to look out for.
          XS1100 F/G (79 Bike/80 Motor)
          Grab a tetanus shot and jump on!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Well Dave, I did some more messing around today on mine, and found an oddity with the new pilot screws. I was having the exact same problem as you, when I left my driveway, bike was running excellent. At the first stop sign I came to, she sputtered and crapped out. Hard to start, and acted like it was running on only 2 cylinders. Got on a main road and yanked on the loud grip. She cleaned up and pulled hard through 4 gears. Chopped the throttle and let the engine coast and had lots of backfiring out of the exhaust. Went home and pulled the plugs and all 4 were very sooty black. Pulled the tank and screwed the pilot screws in to LIGHTLY seated and then back out 2 turns. Rode and it ran fine. Not sure if you want to mess with the carbs, but if you do, I suggest writing down how many turns it takes for each screw to be lightly seated. That way if it gets worse, you can put it back to the way it was.

            Good luck man.

            Comment


            • #7
              Do these readings indicate bad coils that need to be replaced, or a bad test conductor that needs t be replaced? I am now able to get a solid reading for the primary coil resistance (grey 5.93 Ohms/orange 5.79 ohms). These are well above the 1.5 Ohms (+/- 10%) values from the Clymer's manual. I cannot get a good reading on the secondary side. I have to poke around to get any reading, then it will just flash for an instant. Plus the readings are almost never the same. Both secondary values flash between 16.5 and 19.5. The 16.5 is the high end of the books 15K Ohms (+/- 10%). The primary values I got when the temp was about 68, but the temp was around 58 when I finally got my spotty values for the secondary side. I guess my first question is should I get a steady reading on the secondary side? Followed by are the coils shot if the values are too high?

              Thanks Grimace for the reply. Our problems sound similar, but I think I might have a different issue. I say this because I never lose all of the electric. I did replace the fuse box last August right after I got her. I have never messed with the carbs. This makes me think that it might be a carb issue. Although the last time this happened it seemed to fix itself. Which I would not exspect a carb problem to do. However, I obviously don't know what I am talking about or I could fix my bike I get a slight gurgle sound when I am riding at a steady pace with low to mid rpms. It is also present when I start her up cold before I take off. If I pull the clutch after the 1st mile of riding she dies unless I give her gas. I also just realized that I misread BikerPhil's suggestion. I partially unscrewed my spark plug caps then retighted them. I now see that I was supossed to remove them and trim a bit off.
              Dave
              1979 XS1100SF Special

              Comment


              • #8
                Yeah, I suggest a coil change since your coils are that high on resistance. It is a relatively cheap mod that will eliminate a problem.

                I have a slight gurgle at "in town cruise" as well, but I compensate for it by upshifting or downshifting (mine seems to be only at a certain rpm) and that usually takes care of it.

                On a sidenote, are you trying to test your coils at idle, or with the bike off? The test is supposed to be performed with the bike off, and the coils disconnected. Just a quick question.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have the bike off. The coils are disconnected, but still mounted on the bike. I will change the coils out as you suggested as soon as I can convince SWMBO to let me spend the money . Did you ever get your problem sorted out. I can say that the fuse box fix was well worth the minimal time, effort and money in my opinion.
                  Last edited by lakecountrydave; 10-06-2008, 08:26 PM.
                  Dave
                  1979 XS1100SF Special

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                  • #10
                    Hmmm.... how bout the vacuum advance wires?

                    Theres a tech tip on how to check, but it is just an idea.

                    Its weird, on my 78E the advance is all over the place on idle and smooths out if I rev it a bit from idle. So a broken wire here could cause the bike to stall and the hi rpm power loss.

                    On the 1.1 standard the advance is fixed and cannot be adjusted, but it is stationary under idle and it advances normally if I rev it...

                    So, take off the left engine cover, disconnect the advance, check the wires while moving the advance by hand. Who knows... maybe you win
                    If it doesn't have an engine, it's not a sport, it's only a game.
                    (stole that one from I-dont-know-who)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Hey Dave,

                      First of all, for the secondaries, were you measuring them thru the plug caps? The book doesn't specify it, but you need to remove the plug caps before measuring them.

                      Secondly, the plug caps have resistors in them, about 5-8Kohm, and they can also corrode, etc., you can take it apart by unscrewing the plug end, clean the resistor contacts and check before reassembly. If you can't get good reliable readings on the resistors, then would be time to replace the plug caps.

                      Thirdly, did you try contact cleaner on the primary plugs, and also verify that your meter was zeroed properly?? Also use the (+) meter probe on the (+) primary wire, (-) meter on (-) primary wire?
                      And primaries were unplugged from harness?

                      IF you recheck and find them still that high, then would suggest looking at the MikesXS coils upgrade tip, very cost effective bang for buck IMHO!
                      T.C.
                      T. C. Gresham
                      81SH "Godzilla" . . .1179cc super-rat.
                      79SF "The Teacher" . . .basket case!
                      History shows again and again,
                      How nature points out the folly of men!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lakecountrydave
                        I have the bike off. The coils are disconnected, but still mounted on the bike. I will change the coils out as you suggested as soon as I can convince SWMBO to let me spend the money . Did you ever get your problem sorted out. I can say that the fuse box fix was well worth the minimal time, effort and money in my opinion.
                        I think I got my problem sorted out. I dropped the main needle one groove and that made the wot stumble get a lot better, but it is still there. I may drop it to the top groove, and then shim it back up to halfway between the top and second groove.

                        When you get the coils from mikesxs, go ahead and spend the few more bucks on 4 new wires and 4 new plug caps. It will be worth it in the long run, and you won't have to try to clean your old caps.

                        I got my new fuse box from T.C. (thanks again man ) and changed it the same day. Very easy mod, and well worth the price. I looked at the other fuse holders, and all of them were cracked where the fuse sits. It was only a matter of time before one or more broke.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Another idea to check is your floats. What you describe is almost exactaly what my bike acts like when one of my carbs has a leaky float valve. A quick and easy check is to just pull the bottom of the air box off along with the filter and then turn your petcocks to prime. Wait a few minutes and see if any gas starts dripping. Usually when mine starts acting like you describe is just a little dribble but enough to make all 4 run to rich. I tap on each float bowl with a crescent wrench until it stops.
                          1979 xs1100 Special -
                          Stock air box/K&N Filter, MAC 4-2 exhaust, Bad-Boy Air horn, TC fuse box, Windshield, Soft bags, Vetter Fairing, Blinkers->Run/Turn/Brake Lights, Headlight Modulator, hard wire GPS power

                          Short Stack - 1981 xs1100 Standard - lowered for SWMBO.

                          Originally posted by fredintoon
                          Goes like a train, corners like a cow, shifts like a Russian tractor, drinks like a fish, you are gonna love it.
                          My Bike:
                          [link is broken]

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I havn't seen any mention by anyone about the pick up coil wires. Thats the first thing I would suspect. Happened to me and many others I'm sure. XS11.com > Repairs > Battery & Electrical > Ignition Problems - Cylinders Misfiring
                            79SF
                            XJ11
                            78E

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